welp, we could be looking at a new codex next year... - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Junior Member potatolegs's Avatar
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    welp, we could be looking at a new codex next year...

    haven't seen a subject for this here yet so i thought it'd be a bit of fun to brainstorm possible changes to tyranids.

    and while i'll openly admit i'm not experienced with playing nid's i enjoy speculating over the possible changes a new codex would have.

    taking the example of what has been done for marines and imperial guard, and the rumours on the SW codex, i'm hoping for a real overhaul to how nids are composed and how they'd play on the battlefield.

    musings i've read is someone trying to see if there's some way to illustrate the rapid evolution go through on the battle field, responding to a threat by developing quick biological counters. it'd be hard to include this in a game because it'd only work with WON units, and the fact a 40k skirmish is generally meant to represent about 15mins of real time, makes the whole thing somewhat ridiculous.

    but the idea is a characterful one, and my suggestion would be to be able to adapt certain units before the battle starts, in similar way Storm Troopers get to choose 'special missions' before each game that bestows abilities to them.

    an obvious change would be to lower the points of gaunts, to match those of guardsmen and orks. i back this up, and i'd say to lift the restriction on a brood only being able to arm themselves the same way. but that's me just being selfish because i want to be able to field all my spine, borer and dev gaunts all together in one big brood :s
    still, if guardsmen can mob-up, why can't gaunts? an attacking wave of nids is a writhing mass of teeth and claws, not nicely ordered units of simialrly armed bugs. heck, even include hormagaunts in with the mix.
    this will get messy if units have WON, but i reckon that rule should be a staple for these broods, for character alone. the rules may have to be revised but.

    also, people are demanding better armour penetrating guns. while the reasoning for this is obvious, i shy from this idea because that isn't what nids should be about... but instead make spore mines a lot more useful and appealing. change their mechanic so they're purchased as wargear, as an asset, or a certain number of barrages depending on what units you have (similarly to how blood angels get their death comapny) anything like that, that removes them as a FA slot and purely a weapon that rains down on to the enemy disrupting positions and corroding tanks. i reckon you'd only need to develop one type too, to cover all bases. this would remove the necessity to rely on our ranged weaponary, without getting rid of them, and making CC orientated armies a lot more viable.

    the real big one that needs to be looked at would be synapse though. this can be a mecahnic that can cahnge the entire paradigm of the force. taking the example Dawn of War 2 gave us, different synapse fields gave the surrounding units different benefits. to implement this in a way similar to guard orders, or just aura effects, will be what totally pulls the nid's out as a characterful army in the current 5th ed ruleset.


    obviously there'll be a bunch of other changes people desire such as cheaper lictors, tougher warriors and so on, but what i'm tryign to consider is bigger picture than that; imagining the things that will change how the army plays as a characterful force first - then see about changing statlines and points cost


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  3. #2
    Member thefoolish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potatolegs View Post
    also, people are demanding better armour penetrating guns. while the reasoning for this is obvious, i shy from this idea because that isn't what nids should be about...
    While this may be true, armor is what the game as a whole is currently about, and limiting an armies potential based off of fluff that is so frequently changed is silly/. Also, it would not even fit in with the fluff, for as you mentioned Tyranids are rapidly evolving. One would think the would have developed some time of acid or projectile that could deal with this far too common obstacle.
    Applaud, my friend, the Comedy is finished.

    Hive Fleet Charybdis (1-0-0) and Grey Brothers Space Wolf Chapter (3-1-2) [W-L-T]

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    Junior Member potatolegs's Avatar
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    well that's why i offered the option of making spore mines far more viable.

    to me it seems far more characterful then just strapping more guns to fex's, and while fluff does change a lot i see the value in themeing an army so that it plays distinctively from the other races.

    i'm reminded also of the 2nd ed dex that gave the nids special missions as well as weird funky effects (Jones is acting strangely was a personal fav ) that replaced strategy cards.

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    Member thefoolish's Avatar
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    Could it be more colorful? I suppose. But when all these other armies with new dexes, who shall not be named, are getting armed to the hilt with AP10 weapon that don't float and scatter, it seems silly to make spore mines the only real way to go rather than simply taking the strength bonus on Venom Cannons down to +1 and take off the restriction on only being able to glance on non-open topped vehicles.
    Applaud, my friend, the Comedy is finished.

    Hive Fleet Charybdis (1-0-0) and Grey Brothers Space Wolf Chapter (3-1-2) [W-L-T]

  6. #5
    Junior Member potatolegs's Avatar
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    ah, but the simple option doesn't necessarily make an interesting one

    your change is an obvious one, and is what you'd need to apply to buff the nid's some what IF they were to predominantly keep the codex the way it is now.

    i want to go out on a limb and challenge the current builds and favoured units, by contemplating what sort of design paradigms could be used IF you wanted to design something that's different to the current dex

  7. #6
    Member thefoolish's Avatar
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    Again, and I think most people who play nids would agree, interesting is awesome, but I prefer effective. Especially on this issue.

    And honestly, almost everything involving Nids is interesting. We're talking about evolved killing machines from tens of thousands of years in the future.
    Last edited by thefoolish; August 12th, 2009 at 05:38.
    Applaud, my friend, the Comedy is finished.

    Hive Fleet Charybdis (1-0-0) and Grey Brothers Space Wolf Chapter (3-1-2) [W-L-T]

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    I think the change that makes the most sense for GW is to make Biovores a viable option; first they would sell a bunch of them because only the real diehards have them now. My change would increase the broodsize to up to 5, remove the 0-1, and decrease the points by half while allowing them all to fire at independant targets...Then they might be worth it. That may seem overpowered, but there was a post a while ago about how no one would take biovores in 1500 point games if they were free because your heavy slots are reserved for 2 fexes and some zoans; if biovores were free they still wouldn't get play--that needs to change.

    Next I badly want my non leaping scything gaunt back...and he should cost 4 or 5 points, but I would probably even pay 6 for him. 10 however is too expesive for a unit that leaps ahead of synapse only to lose combat and retreat because of pidly leadership.

    Then I want cheaper warriors, not better or more durable just less expensive (especially CC warriors). Cheaper lictors comes here too.

    And now that those are out the wild ideas can come...I want my mycetic spores back as other armies can deepstike everything (marines, daemons) we could use something like them, and if you made it so monsterous creatures couldn't use them it would give another reason to use warriors as it would be how you get synapse up to the front (and scatter should only be on 1 die if they are within 6" of a synapse creature.

  9. #8
    Member thefoolish's Avatar
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    I kind of doubt we will see deepstriking MCs, sadly. My reasoning for this is that that was one of the unique things about planetstrike, which is still a rather new expansion. I doubt they would take away one of the appeals of the new expansion.

    But can you imagine deepstriking fexes? Man, Ninjafexes would be so much more useful...
    Applaud, my friend, the Comedy is finished.

    Hive Fleet Charybdis (1-0-0) and Grey Brothers Space Wolf Chapter (3-1-2) [W-L-T]

  10. #9
    Junior Member potatolegs's Avatar
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    sweet as foolish, we'll have to disagree on that particular point, because we obviously have some what differing gaming philosophies. but i hope you know i see where you're coming from. i won't argue that tyranids do have a bunch of character at the moment... i just want MORE

    as for mycetic spores... that's something that i've always enjoyed about nids, even if that treads on to the marine's toes. and sure it might clash with planetstrike's rules, but doesn't planetstrike allow deep striking units assault after they've landed, whereas all other units can only DS as uaual? that'd make attacking MCs a whole heap of fun but fluffwise i believe mycetic spores are essentially egg sacs that birth tyranid organisms, not in the same way drop pods contain ready marine squads and dreads.

    perhaps this can be reflected in certain terrain rules, terraforming has occured and nid units pop out of the gestating spores onto whatever hapless fool strays too close.... hmmm, not that great a game mechanic, but an idea i suppose

    while biovores are certainly not a viable option in the face of everything else, i personally never liked their inclusion ever since their introduction in 2nd ed. but sure, for those players that like them a buff would be nice.


    what about my other ideas? too stupid? the ramblings of a bleary-eyed warham?
    Last edited by potatolegs; August 12th, 2009 at 06:11.

  11. #10
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    Well, I totally agree on cheaper gaunts...I mean, humans with armor and guns cost less than a basic alien? Also, I dislike that Guards have the ability to get more troops than Tyranids. The whole point of Tyranids and Orks are the swarm and, though the same is true for Guard to a lesser extent, it weakens the strength and fluff of a specialized army if you let another army do it better. It's like in D&D making a class that does nothing but heal, but then allowing a hybrid class to heal even better. Stupid!

    The idea about different syanpse effects is interesting, and not really far fetched. It would basically be the Tyranid version of the new Guard's orders.
    Applaud, my friend, the Comedy is finished.

    Hive Fleet Charybdis (1-0-0) and Grey Brothers Space Wolf Chapter (3-1-2) [W-L-T]

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