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I was doing some adding up of my forces, and I currently have 12 warriors, 3 scarabs and a Warscythe Lord (I intend to run him as assault) and I'll be buying the phalanx too. So I'm gonna have 60 warriors. And I'm thinking I'm going to try fielding them with 2 lords, and either the destroyers or scarabs as fast attack or a monolith for heavy support.
I have 2 questions.
1. As I won't be buying anymore 'cron models until they put out the new codex (GW, please give us more plastic models, especially flayed ones and immortals...wraiths is probably too much to ask), should I field the destroyers and Monolith but not bring so many warriors?
2. If I bring the 60 warriors, should I organize them in 3 squads of 20, 3 squads of 15 or 6 squads of 10? I'm going to try to keep at least 15 warriors together so I'll run the 6 squads in pairs, the 4 or 3 squads "solo" (as solo as 'crons get anyway). I'm going to run them with a Res.Orb. Lord and if I take the 'lith, that too. If I bring scarabs and/or Destroyers, the scythe lord with run with them.
Dark Lord of the 'Crons
A problem we are facing in 5th ed is how easy we fall to CC because of low I. To minimize losses, make it 6 squads of 10. Then you can focus on another unit. (Destroyers?)
I am going to agree, 6 squads of 10 is better than 3 squads of 20. For a few reasons. As mentioned, if assaulted by a squad you still have 50 guns able to shoot rather than 40. Additionally, with the extra squads you can be more efficient/flexible with your shooting. You also get more mobility. Leadership is not a big issue as you are a 10 so you wont run from shooting often enough for it to matter.
I recommend starting as a wall as far towards the center of the board as you can. I'm a big fan of deepstriking the lith. When it comes in you want to deep strike it right in the center of your opponents main force, preferably near an objective. Force him to deal with it, else face the wrath of the gauss arcs. The teleporting of the particle whip is much better than the template. Use it to warp your warriors out of close combat to help them close the distance to your opponents objects.
Lastly, don't forget to hold one or two of your 10 man squads back to baby sit your objectives. Scarabs are great...marines hate them as they pin them down all game.
Destroyers are very good too (though I prefer bugs and wraiths, but i'm DEFINITELY in the minority). Keep them on the flanks so they stay alive!
Mr. McDufus has some very sound advice; I would pay it some heed.
I've never picked up the phalanx, but I think you get 6 Destroyers in there. That's really not a shabby amount to have. Realistically, without going crazy with the 15-Destroyer spam, I think 8-10 Destroyers is a healthy amount. Two squads of 4-5 will give you some serious firepower and also leave some room open to get some Scarabs on the field. Also, if money is an issue, I really suggest only buying Heavy Destroyers and magnetizing their guns so you can swap them out. I mean, when you buy a HD, it's really a Destroyer + the Gauss Cannon, why not make use of all the parts you buy?
As for some tactics on a huge warrior-heavy force, I don't have much experience there. I only have 40 warriors and seldom field even that many. But I also keep most of my game-play around the 1500 to 1750 range, so I don't have a need for 60+ warriors. I know some people have had pretty good success with mass warriors and a monolith or two.
Hope this helps,
Full-sized squads are resilient, but tougher to manage. Also, with three squads of 20 you'll be kicking yourself when you end up with a "Seize Ground" mission with five objectives. I say, field three squads of 10 and two squads of 15. Now, you'll have enough scoring units for any game, and in those where you have fewer objectives to take, well, that's all the more likely you can take (and hold) one.
Also, the lord with warscythe, if I may say, is a bad idea. I know, it probably came with the model, but a footslogging lord with a 'scythe is definitely NOT a common build, mostly because the only thing he can escort is warriors, and most players will tell you that if your warriors are seeing that much close combat, you're doing something wrong.
A Lord with 'scythe is best with a destroyer body and a squad of wraiths. A cliche? Sure, but there's a reason for that: it works. On foot, supporting warriors, give him the staff and a res orb.
I'd also reconsider flayed ones, wraiths and immortals. Yes, the metal models are prohibitively expensive, but consider instead converting a box of warriors. For $35 US (assuming you can't find a discount somewhere) you get 12 bodies to work with. There are a number of guides out there that show how those warriors can be turned into 6 immortals and 6 flayed ones, with only a little plasticard, some cheap wire (chop up an old set of headphones), and a minimal amount of green stuff. It's a fun project that will save you a TON of money.
Making wraiths is harder but also not impossible, though I know of no guides for doing it.
Why would anyone need more than 3 troops squads? After all, you just have to get the majority of objectives, and theres never more than 5. -> 3 objectives is all you need to win; if you want to go sure, you can still deny the opponent objectives by, for instance, tboosting scarabs. Having lots of troops is even a negative factor in KP missions, as those warriors are easy to kill off (well...comparitively...). In addition, theyre not the really killy stuff, while their cost is still quite high. Just think of all those Immortals, Destroyers, Wraiths or eve Flayed you could get for them!
In fact, some people just use the minimum of 20 warriors, and theyre enormously successful (though I wouldnt go that far...).
So, to conclude Id say: 30 warriors is best, if youve got some points left that cant be used for something better, add a warrior or two, but try focusing on killy stuff.
As an afterthought, i dont think the Phalanx set is all its cracked up o be; An army with that many warriors is almost as fun to play as chess without the pieces.
"Better to crush an ant with a boulder, than flick lazily at it, possibly miss, and then have it bite you in the ass." The Awakened One
As a tip, if you place enough of the objectives, place them the minimum 12" and CLOSE to you so you can hold them easily (being as we move so slowly).
30 warriors at 2k means you NEED all of them to stay up. If you even lose ONE squad (and it does happen) if there's 5 objectives you'll find yourself hard pressed!
Last edited by Dark Trainer; August 14th, 2009 at 19:51.
"There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
Okay, I have a lot to reply to.
1. I accidently bought the Warscythe foot slogging lord. But as I understand it, I can give him the phase shifter (invuln save and wraith movement)...I'm really just trying to make due with what I have.
2. I have a buddy who does conversions, and I paint his SM. So I'll probably give him some warriors to convert. I'll probably keep about 40ish...but with the 12 warriors 3 scarab bases per box (I can get the discounts) I can use the converted Immortals and scarabs. I was asking about the 60 warriors, to see if warrior spam is actually any good. I'm going to see what the new codex has in store before I convert though.
3. I figured that the 6 units of 10 would be the better way to go, the only reason I would do a unit of 20 is to VoD them near an objective with the scythe lord, RF and use GoF to try and kill some stuff.
4. I intend (codex permitting) to run heavy Immortals and Wraiths, but I'll keep my options open for the moment. I might do that list with 30 warriors and a 'lith or run it with more warriors and a few heavy destroyers. It'll depend if anything gets nerfed by GW.
5. Thank you all very much for the imput. From what I've heard, warrior and scarab swarm isn't particularly effective. If anyone can post a link to a Flayed Ones/Immortals conversion guide that they've used, I'd be grateful.
Dark Lord of the 'Crons
Otherwise, hey, give it a go! You may find it more useful than we're giving it credit for. If so, come back and tell us!
If you're doing "warrior spam" you would do well to spread them out, as you suggest. I'm not saying it can't work, but I personally find this a very dull and uninventive way to play. It's different with, say, Space Marines, where even a squad of grunts can be customized for various different purposes, but warriors all look (and play) the same. For me, that's no fun, and it's too limiting in terms of strategy. Yes, it works with orks, IG and nids, but those guys cost literally a third the points of a single Necron warrior, so a horde, while fluffy, isn't very practical in game terms, simply because it limits what else you can do.
I'd highly recommend converting some warriors into immortals, flayed ones, and/or wraiths. Do a search to find threads on LO on converting. It's pretty simple, overall.
I'm talking about giving the foot lord the phase shifter (I think that's legal), and getting my buddy to convert the warriors into Immortals and Flayed Ones. Also, I'll probably paint a small marble up and add it to give him the Res Orb, but I think most of my opponents will let me proxy the scythe as a staff. But if I run him with a wraith wing he should be fine with the GoF instead.
Dark Lord of the 'Crons