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Hi. New ork player here. I've only had 3 games under my belt so far, so I may chalk this up to inexperience, but here's the scenario:
In my first game, I went up against the Ultramarines. Seeing a shiny blue Land Raider made my boyz wanna wreck it. So I attacked it with a trukk full of boyz and the boss (12), followed by another trukk full of boyz (12), followed by footsloggin boyz(20, whittled down to 12 or so by the time they assaulted). The LR wrecked easily enuff, but the termies inside was hard as hell, and Calgar wiff em didn't help.
After the game, some of my friends said I should include more PKs next time. True enuff, I did.
The next game was against Grey Knights, more specifically with Stern. My PK clad warboss didn't stand a chance, and neither did my boyz, as the GK initiative is alot higher. Stern's psyko 'I roll less than 10 ur boss dies' strike mopped up my boyz in short order. All 32 of em. Okay, back to the drawing board.
3rd game, my trukk full of 'ard boyz and da boss assaulted a LR carrying Stern and his groupie. The boss n boyz got summarily executed in a turn. Then a LR swooped behind my 28 'ard boyz (2 died to LR fire a turn before), unleashing a group of 5 GK termies, who then proceeded to rain hell on them. All 28 died in one turn of combat. How. The. Heck. Does. This. Happen?
How does one combat them? I don't have many PKs (at most 2, unless I'm running Nob Mobs). They've got invul saves stacked upon their +2 armor saves, and the severe lack of power weapons available to orks is sort of a detriment.
I'm just wondering what the general strategy against these guys are? Should I get more Dakka and less Choppa? Would melta-gun toting Meks help? Or should I just stalk weaker prey and run from them forever? I'z an Ork, an we nevva run!
Calgar is rough, especially if your opponent manages to push him against your nob with the powerklaw, so you can't attack any of the other models in the unit with it.
More powerklaws is definitely the way to go, although killa kans with kustom mega blastas also work well (although the termies might trash them with their powerklaws in the assault).
Another good unit for fighting termies with is the shokk attakk gun, which is AP 2, and usually strong enough to wound on 2's.
If all else fails, just try to avoid them. Termies take up a lot of points, so in some games, you can simply attack everything else and still win.
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
The best way to bring down termies is with more boyz. They only have 1 W and they are I 1 if they use the Powerfists. point for point a termie is worth 6.66 boyz. bump up your boyz to 30 choppas with the nob PK of course and go to town. Trukk boys are good at taking down the LR as you have already found out. The biggest problem comes from lightning claw termies. Shootas are best for them as they attack at I 4 and get the extra attack. Nobs are not good against terms as they will both go at I 1 and the nobs will cost more then the terms.
Choppas > Powerfist termies
Shootas > Lightning Klaws
More boys > Space Marines
My little brother play's Grey Knights, And my solution is to get my deff dreads stuck in as quickly as possible. Two of these outta do it. WIthout a powerfist in the Greky knight termie squad, he'll have a hard time bringing these beasties down. Failing that, I usually stick my big mek in a squad of boyz with a burna. That way I've got a PK nob attacks along with my Big Mek's Power Weapon attacks. Man do i wish warbosses could take Burna's
PM me about Aurora Prime Vassal fights! Willing and ready!
thanks for the replies guys. some real good advice there. Since I don't have dreads atm, I'll stick with PKs and more boyz.
The Ultramarines weren't as rough as the GKs, and I managed to bring them down to Calgar and 1 termie before he snuffed my boyz. Calgar just caught me off-guard (being my first game, and not really expecting a unique, and charging a LR just to see if I could bring it down)
The GK on the other hand, had those glaive-like (relic blades?) weapons that are power weapons, while still retaining their high initiative. The Nob bikers could technically bring them down (brought them down to the leader, who was on 2 wounds. Killing him would mean I would consolidate away from Stern to prevent him charging me. I rolled six wounds that he needed a 5+ invul save for. My friend rolled 5,5,5,6,6,6. The following turn Stern n his groupies wiped out all 6 bikers.)
I guess my general plan from now on is to:
1. Not put bikers in reserves. They are just too good not to use right away.
2. Avoid termie-filled LR until I wipe out other weaker units. That way I won't have Rhinos blocking my escape routes as the LR block me in.
3. Get a SAG
I'd like an opinion on the SAG. Boss + SAG or SAG + KFF?
I use Bike boss and SAG even without a biker mob, just like the toughness speed coversave and great gun
A unit of 15 burna boyz in a battlewagon, or trukk, the uni itself should come to 225 and unleash a massive 45 poer weapon shots on the charge that strike before those normal termies (the grey knights are a harder nut to crack), no finnese needed just set the flame to cuttin and your good to go averaging 22 hits 11 wounds and 8 termies dropped, the special characters better invul savess and Sterns reroll can skew this result a bit, but those are the averages right there.
Ask me about the Black and White Space Marine on the Black and White Bike!!!
if you are having trouble with termies either you aren't hitting them enough to cause them to fail saves or you are not using powerklaws.
even though their invul save if using a shield is 3+ its still a whole number worse than 2+ so take a claw everywhere you can and make sure you remember to use that waaagh to get the assault.
Not getting the charge on a unit as strong as termies is a bad, bad thing as you get a whole less attack each and wound on 5's reducing your effectiveness by a number that I can't calculate as I hate maths, but it's significant enough to be the defining factor in an assault against such a well armoured unit.
I'm not sure if I'm piling enough attacks on them. A trukk full of boyz, nob with PK n boss piles on 40 attacks that hit on a 4+, wound on a 4+. On average, 20-25 hit, and from that 10-12 wounds. The termies need a 2+ to negate that, which are excellent odds.
But the odds of 40 attacks happening are slim since the termies get to hit 1st, even if I'm assaulting (the GKs, specifically). They drastically reduce the number of attacks, effectively nullifying the assault.
Even when I sent a wave of barely touched footsloggers, the termie's higher initiative allows them to thin the ranks of boyz.
So far I think my strategy (sending in a glut of boyz, either footslogging in cover or in KFF'ed trukks), are in line with the general ork strategy, but it doesn't pay off. The boyz barely scratch paint, and the termie characters finish off my boss without giving him a chance to strike back. I end up with 4-5 boyz trying to take on the most elite of elite.
Maybe it's wrong to assault a vehicle? (the passengers get the charge regardless if I destroy the vehicle or not, and chances of them getting pinned is super low). Should I try to destroy the vehicle prior to charging? Send in my KFF mek with a burna to take out the vehicle, and charge in the boss and boyz once the enemies show their face?
Next time you attack a vehicle (i.e. LR), make sure you surround it completely. If you wreck it (not explode it), the passengers need to disembark. If they can't disembark without being withing 1" of your models, then they are destroyed with no saves whatsoever (kinda like sweeping advance).
That said, I play Grey Knights and our model count is usually very low. It's just a war of attrition, and against our regular knights, a 30-boy mob has the slight advantage if they get the charge. However, if the knights get the charge, with 2 heavy flamers (incinerators), we will easily wipe out your 30-boy mob in 1 turn. Make sure you get the charge, or have another 30-boy mob close by for the counter-charge.
Burna boys, if they get the charge, are absolutely devastating...that is, if they survive the initial onslaught from the I4 knights.
But the thing that worries me the most are the nob bikers or even a regular nob squad with several power klaws. Our inv saves are a pitiful 5+ and even our storm shields suck (being the older 4++ instead of the newer 3++ space marine versions). On the flip side, our GM's (or Stern's) Nemesis Force Weapons are great and will even slice through Eternal Warriors. Most likely they will come out on top even against our GKT's unless we can somehow weaken them with shooting before they assault.