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    Help against heavy armour

    Hello

    I'm new to 40k, and decided to start with Eldar. Maybe a bit punishing, but having played 5 games now (lost 3, drawn 2) I've learned a helluva lot against people who have been playing for years.

    However, one recurring issue that I don't seem to have an answer to is 14 strength armour...

    One game I faced 2 Land Raiders, and aside from FDs I had nothing that could scratch it (brightlance aside, which is a 6+ glancing I believe?).

    And another game saw me face up against 6 Leman Russes, so even tho I was a bit more prepared (FDs, 3 x BL and Hawks with Haywire grenades) I still only popped one before the endless ordnance dropped on anything and everything.

    With a general lack of invuln saves - or indeed any real defence against ordnance that's used effectively - I'm really wondering how to go up against these mech armies?

    I'm at 1500pts and admittedly don't have a Fire Prism, which would be an option... but that'll be an immediate target so it's then a waste of points and cash...


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    GOODNESS GRACIOUS GREAT DRAGONS OF FIRE!

    welcome. Allow me to help!

    1. Bright Lances are the ultimate heavy tank hunting weapon! I would highly suggest reading the details in the 40k rulebook on "Lance" classified weapons. (They treat all armor above 12 as 12 ie they never have worse than a 4 to glance and a 5 to penetrate..) It sounds like either you and your friends were very inexperienced with lance weapons OR someone was grifting you... A lance will never just glance on a 6 (except on a monolith but that's as a result of its rules not ours). Landraiders and russes notoriously FEAR lances. That land raider only has armor 12 12 12 when it gets hit =)

    2. Fire Dragons are exceptional tank hunters with AP1 Str8 Melta classified weapons. However, they are DOUBLY effective with a transport. It's too hard to walk dragons to a tank with only a 12" gun and a 4+ save...they'll never make it. If you get six of them and put them in a falcon or wave serpent, then you can zip to the tank, unload the dra Mgons and melt them to slag in a turn.

    3. Wraithguard... take a look at the rules in the Eldar Codex for the wraithcannon...just makes a mockery of heavy armor. Again, with the 12" range they are MUCH more effective popping out of a wave serpent with a warlock.

    4. 2 Fire prisms linked up is just straightforward, i'd definitely consider it. Str 10 BS4..

    5. Hawks/Haywire grenades are only so so, I mean it's effective it's just expensive for a tricky light unit. They can't charge the turn they deep strike so it leaves them vulnerable. Get an exarch with intercept if you plan on doing this to fast vehicles too.

    6. Mobile Shuriken cannons/scatter lasers...this won't work on the land raiders but any tank with a back armor of 10 is susceptable to mobile str6 multi shot cannons. Jetbikes, vypers and even serpents are so fast that they can often get around to weak spots in vehicles. Also, outflanking war walkers can often do it too.

    7. Wraithlords and Avatars rip it up in CC if they can get there. I find the Wraithlords are useful to give the bright lances though, since they are BS4 and all.

    Hope this helps. read the rules on lances, they are your best friend!

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    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyEli View Post
    Hello

    I'm new to 40k, and decided to start with Eldar. Maybe a bit punishing, but having played 5 games now (lost 3, drawn 2) I've learned a helluva lot against people who have been playing for years.

    However, one recurring issue that I don't seem to have an answer to is 14 strength armour...

    One game I faced 2 Land Raiders, and aside from FDs I had nothing that could scratch it (brightlance aside, which is a 6+ glancing I believe?).

    And another game saw me face up against 6 Leman Russes, so even tho I was a bit more prepared (FDs, 3 x BL and Hawks with Haywire grenades) I still only popped one before the endless ordnance dropped on anything and everything.

    With a general lack of invuln saves - or indeed any real defence against ordnance that's used effectively - I'm really wondering how to go up against these mech armies?

    I'm at 1500pts and admittedly don't have a Fire Prism, which would be an option... but that'll be an immediate target so it's then a waste of points and cash...
    Bright Lances lower any armor over 12 to 12. So its 4s to glance and 5-6 to penetrate.

    Fire prisms are the way to go. There not a waste of points , idk who told you that. I take 3 in 1500 and never regret it for a second.

    Fire Dragons can turn a landraider inside out.

    Wrathlords and avatars can too...if you can get them to it.

    Also is he using the 2 dice to roll for penetrate against ur wave serpeants? if so he only gets one.
    Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
    Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
    Grey knights - 1000 Points

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    These guys have it down! The only word of warning is that the Black Templars can have that special vehicle upgrade on their Land Raiders that null out the lance rule.

    BUT! Aside from that ONE instance against that ONE army (not counting Monoliths, I guess), these fellas have hit the mark. Fire Dragons and Fire Prisms are my choice.

    -Dark

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    also slyeli, since you weren't aware of the rule on lances, make sure you look up/know the rules on melta weapons too. (half range gives 2d6 armor penetration roles...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CloudArchitect View Post
    also slyeli, since you weren't aware of the rule on lances, make sure you look up/know the rules on melta weapons too. (half range gives 2d6 armor penetration roles...)
    but not against front and side wave serpent armor due to energy field rule ..tadaaaa
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    Oooooooh, this is good news... the people I've played definitely weren't trying to cover up the lances rule, they just won't have known about it.

    Wow, with 3 on the field last night, getting 8 shots against tanks altogether over the course of the battle and 6 hits... that would have given me a decent chance!

    Good point about the Hawks - in fact I inadvertently cheated there by charging in the same turn as Deep Striking, so I'll remember that for next time. Maybe I'll spend those points on more FDs...

    And thanks for the advice on Fire Prisms - 3 in 1500 pts sounds like fun, although cash-wise that'll have to wait for a month or two ;-)

    Most importantly, you've given me hope... oh the lance rule, how I love thee!

    Many thanks, all

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    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyEli View Post
    Oooooooh, this is good news... the people I've played definitely weren't trying to cover up the lances rule, they just won't have known about it.

    Wow, with 3 on the field last night, getting 8 shots against tanks altogether over the course of the battle and 6 hits... that would have given me a decent chance!

    Good point about the Hawks - in fact I inadvertently cheated there by charging in the same turn as Deep Striking, so I'll remember that for next time. Maybe I'll spend those points on more FDs...

    And thanks for the advice on Fire Prisms - 3 in 1500 pts sounds like fun, although cash-wise that'll have to wait for a month or two ;-)

    Most importantly, you've given me hope... oh the lance rule, how I love thee!

    Many thanks, all
    Go on ebay and wait for the guy who posts the 3 tank deals. Get the 3 prisms and if you dont have at least 3 serpeants yet, get the 3 serpeants too. Now fill the tanks with some weak batches of eldar and you are set.
    Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
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    Just a little slightly related note: ordinance shots still get to roll 2D6 and take the highest result when rolling for armor penetration on wave serpents, as this is different from adding the results from 2 dice to your strength for armor penetration. This is a rule that you should keep in mind when facing leman russes and other ordinance weapons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elendor View Post
    Just a little slightly related note: ordinance shots still get to roll 2D6 and take the highest result when rolling for armor penetration on wave serpents, as this is different from adding the results from 2 dice to your strength for armor penetration. This is a rule that you should keep in mind when facing leman russes and other ordinance weapons.
    The wave serpent Energy Field rule specifically states "all ranged attacks never roll more than 1d6 for armour penetration" and goes on to cite Ordnance as an example.

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