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I'm just wondering if anyone choose Shuriken Cannons over Scatter Lasers as their weapons choice in their Vypers/Falcons, or Wave Serpants.
It seems to me for a mere 5-10 more points the Scatter is so much better for Anti-Infantry weaponry. More-over Eldar vehicles that has the ability to mount these guns are not Chaos Land Raiders so they always need to stay at a good distance.
The Scatter is 32" compared to the Shuriken 24".
I just want to be convinced these things are ever worth getting over Scatters.
It is all about price. Sometimes my waveserpent is only there to get my unit to the target faster. In such a case any points I spend on the weapon are points wasted for several rounds. If you plan to get into a close range fight the extra range of the scatter lasers isn't a big bonus.
Scatter lasers also get 4 hits though.
That's leaps and bounds better than Shurikens
5 to 10 points really add up. I generally play Shruiken Cannons on infiltrating War Walkers, where the shorter range doesn't make much of a difference. If you do the math, as someone did in the War Walker thread a week or so ago,
3 walkers with twin ShruiCannons costs the same as 2 Walkers with twin Scatterlasers
--When in range, the ShuriCannons, on average, cause more hits and more wounds, due to higher volume of shots.
--The lower AP is a small bonus, but it IS there. When you infiltrate, it's pretty easy to negate a lot of cover saves due to barricades and crates and whatnot. And I'm not going to lie, I rarely find a IG Command Platoon that has carapace armor.
I consider the Scatterlasers when I know that my mobility will be limited and just a ton of firepower is needed. When I bury my Walkers in cover and Guide them as a tactic I find Scatterlasers pretty useful. However, it's only gaining 1-2 more shots for a ton of extra points.
On Wave Serpents I simply go with the ShuriCannon or EML. It's pretty much always moving at the point where only one gun can fire. As a Dark Eldar player as well, its horrid how expensive Wave Serpents can get and the Shuricannon is a bargain. Again, just one more shot is not worth all the points that go into it, especially when I have 2 Serpents and a pair of Fire Prisms (sometimes) on crowd Control as well.
I'll grant that Falcons may be better off with the Scatterlaser. As seeing its a relatively small investment compared to the expensive tank and expensive defensive upgrades (generally necessary), I see the Scatterlaser being a good call.
My Vypers are stickin with Shuricannons. They're already really easy to take down and a little on the pricey side. No reason to add 20% again to their cost for one more shot.
Because it isn't a mere 5-10 points. Shuriken Cannons are used mostly on Wave Serpents carrying squads that need to get close - FD, WG, Banshees, etc. And they are 15 points more. I prefer a cheaper Serpent as I have better uses for those points and I have no wish to make my Serpent and even juicier target. I seperate my Serpents with either TLBLs or TLCannons.
I play mech reserve normally. This means if it is a serpent transporting units I use aggressively ( firedragons, melee units ) depending on the reserve rolls it will not be firing for the first 2-4 rounds of a game. why pay more for a weapon that isn't getting used? I will agree in general the scatterlaser is better but there are times when the shuriken cannon is good enough and saves points.
I'll take the Scatter Laser....
...unless it means I won't be able to run something else. I'd rather field extra bodies then use scatter lasers MOST times, but sometimes my War Walkers -are- my Punch squad, and so it becomes a no-brainer.
On vehicles, rarely will I ever take scatter lasers. On Vypers, if I need extra punch out of them, I'll put Eldar Missile Launchers on them and upgrade them to shruiken cannons. On Falcons, EMLs, on Wave Serpents, EMLs or Bright Lances, or Shruiken cannons if I need them to be cheap.
Scatter lasers have one role, that thats on outflanking warwalkers where the extra shot might matter (punching rear armour duty, etc..)
Edit: If I take Guardian squads, I'll always take Scatter Lasers.
I usually take three Wave Serpents with TL cannons. As said before, the range doesn't matter when they're carrying Fire Dragons or Dire Avengers into the thick of battle.
The consideration here is if the +15 points is enough for one additional shot per turn at pretty much the same strength. The way I see it, taking three TL scatterlasers over three TL cannons is 45pt I could be spending.
That is enough for two fire dragons and a dire avenger that I could instead shove into a squad. That is enough to give my Farseer Spirit Stones and another psychic power. That is enough for two jetbikes or a single jetbike warlock.
I never take scatter lasers on Wave Serpents.
For vypers I think it makes sense to take the scatter lasers, as they are very fragile and the extra range hopefully will keep them out of enemy range.
On a falcon I usually take an EML to match the range and strength of the pulse laser that is already on there. This way the falcon is a light tank killing machine. Otherwise I would probably take a scatter laser.
On serpents I follow the thought pattern that it is a transport first and a tank second, so therefore I try to make it as cheap as possible. So for me it is TL cannons all teh way. I've found that after dropping off troops I'll get a fair amount of side and rear armour shots too so it doesnt matter that it is lower points.
Army: W/L/D -- Eldar 6/2/2; Orks 1/3/0; BA 1/1/0
The Tale of Two Gamers
i only come across this problem when using my war walkers, i always use Shuriken cannons on those because i use them to outflank and cause mayhem if only for a turn or 2 so i like to keep them cheap 120 points for a hard hitting unit like that is a bargin, also bein able to threaten enemy tanks on the rear or valuable GEQ command squads hidden behind enemy army
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