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Okay well i was using my stores eldar army today and while going through it i noticed a misplaced, BEAUTIFULLY painted ethereal.
now i think they suck.....fireknife shas'el all the way, but i love the fluff for them and i love the models.
so is there a way they could be a viable choice in an army?
BS4 fearless fire warriors fire warriors, 3 STR5 attacks and possibly some shield drones in there for the ability to make every tau that can see him re-roll Crap-Your-Pants tests....even successful ones (i dont know about anybody else but i sometimes misjudge assault ranges, and sometimes i WANT to leg it outta there, and eldar vehicles are quicker than ours ).....
....the more i think about it the more i wanna try it. any one had any experience or have any tips on what to do with them? or even some comments telling me im insane and knocking some sense back into me would be appreciated!!!!
Well im pretty new to warhammer but ive read alot and as far as i can tell i would always take a Shas'el over an ethereal, but i do agree with you they do look cool and the fluff behind them is great. If i had to put them in an army it would only be in 2K point battles and with a maxed out squad of fire warriors and Dfish.
no, period. even if u take the honor guard all ur opponent has to do is get through a fire warrior squad with +1 BS! trust me, the benefits arent wirth the expenes, being that when (and notice WHEN) he dies odds are that half ur army will run, and the fact that he nly lets u re-roll leadership checks has never been and never will be worth it! u may come back at me with the preffered enemy ability gained after he dies, however if he got close enough to ur ethereal odds are he is close enough to the rest of ur army that it wont make a difference!
in short, they are NEVER a viable choice in my book!
There are three kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who cannot.
You honestly don't know how to use the Ethereals, do you?
Advanced Tau Tactica :: View topic - The Case for Ethereals
Tried, true, and tested. The best site for tactics, IMHO.
Last edited by MaleOpener; September 6th, 2009 at 04:08. Reason: additions
If hes in a fish and a unit can see it do they count as seeing him?
well in the codex does it say if they see him or if they see the unit he's in?
From my understanding, no.
If the devilfish was 'open topped', then other units could.
This is why Ork forces are a pain, as the mek's force field thingy will still affect those around him from within his chosen vehicle.
My main quibble with that guide is it has no negatives (other than the normal price of failure), here are the things he neglected to point out:
Cost: A full squad of Honour guards costs 144pts plus the cost of the Ethereal pushes the cost to a whopping 194pts. For that we get 12 BS4 Pulse rifles. Question is what do we give up for those 12 shots, a Fireknife or Deathrain squad, a Hammerhead, a Pathfinder squad, two XV88's, a Devilfish, two units of Kroot or maybe a full Fire Warrior squad (troop choice)? mmmm when we consider what we need to lose to take them are they such an attractive proposition then?
Another problem is taking an Ethereal forces you to take two HQ choices. XV8 commanders are +1 choices so in lower points games you are forced to pay a lot for HQ. In 1000pts games this can severely restrict what you take. The other thing is an XV8 commander is so much more useful than an Ethereal (even with an Honour guard).
Re-rolling moral tests is a dubious benefit. For one LOS has to be traced and here we have a problem. The Ethereal has no armour and is toughness 3 so without an Honour guard it needs to be in cover or out of line of sight of enemy units. If the Ethereal is in cover or out of LOS then it will be just as out of LOS to the Tau forces, If its not in LOS the inspiring presence ability is nullified.
Another thing is the re-roll is just that a re-roll. It is no guarantee of success. The ability to re-roll failed tests to keep a unit in CC is also dubious. Kroot are our main CC unit and they cannot benefit from the ability, Fire Warriors should never be in CC because they are needed for objective control in the majority of games So staying in CC is bad, losing CC is bad and the re-roll is not really any benefit unless it is last turn and the FW's are trying to hold/contest an objective.
The Ethereal has 2 wounds and no armour save so the first two wounds means death (or 1 at STR6). The wound allocation rules make it almost impossible to keep an Ethereal safe unless a full Honour guard squad is used, taking Shield Drones does not work well because they have the same TGH and armour save as the Ethereal I/E no armour save and TGH3 so you pay 15pts for a 4+ save Drone.
The guides diminishing of the price of failure is also very misleading. Fire warriors have a LDS value of 8 max, in fact the average LDS is 8 throughout the Tau army, not brilliant. Unless a unit has a binding knife then there is a good possibility that a good proportion of the army will run of the table, this is bad enough but the other thing most people do not consider is the fact that your units have a good chance of being moved out of position you spent a lot of time manoeuvring into favourable positions.
So basically you pay nearly 200pts for a few Pulse rifles, a dubious ability, the chance to work out which unit you are losing to take the Ethereal's and the chance to watch your units run of the table.
Something to consider. If your Ethereal dies all Tau units must take a moral test and fall back if the test is failed. Well how do Fire Warriors in Devilfish do this? they cannot fall back if they are in a Devilfish. It would appear that they would have to disembark and then take the test, which means you have a FW unit out of its protective Devilfish and possibly running away.
So does the FW unit have to disembark? the rule says any Tau unit on the table top and a FW unit in a DF is on the table top. Can units take moral tests in vehicles? if they MUST take a moral test then they have to disembark, don't they?