Is 5ed a time of 3xLiths and HDestroyers? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    280 (x6)

    Is 5ed a time of 3xLiths and HDestroyers?

    I was following discussions on "cheesy" 3x Liths builds, and how Destroyers are superior to HDestroyer, but I assume things changed a bit lately... I do not want to beat the dead horse some more, but I was looking for input on how such lists (3x Liths, HDestroyers and possibly some TSpyders) fare in 5ed?

    I play =][= and codex Space Marines, but feel bad about keeping my little, metal friends in their cozy case for so long, and was thinking about breaking them out this Friday. The idea was to use the Liths as a "get out of CC" portals and support for 2 or 3 squads of Warriors, with the remainder of points focused on both flavors of Destroyers. Or would I want to take some Wraiths too?

    Hoping that I do not need to wait til next Codex...



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    102 (x5)

    Personally with 3 liths, very few things can KILL them honestly. That's usually the issue you run into an opponent who sees 3. However, a SMART opponent will ignore them and waste your necrons and force phase out (always). Honestly, the lith's are scary and don't die, but they are far from the WORST possible thing in our arsenal.

    15 Destroyers is also devastating. Heavy D's just aren't worth it to me. 65 points for a WORSE than lascannon is rediculous. 9 Spyders is supposed to be brutal as you're talking 27 attacks of Monsterous creatures + 9 more on the charge. That's alot of no save CC.

    Honestly, any truely CC army will just engage you and sweep you. Surviving long enough to GET portalled is the problem

    However, I do field my Ctan. And I wouldn't fear putting 2 liths on the table with a Deceiver. At least we become nastier.
    "There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

  4. #3
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    3 monoliths and heavy destroyers or tomb spyders won't -ever- work with a standard force organization chart, as they all take up heavy support slots of which there are only three.


    Three monoliths is pretty scary. But the question is where you will get the points from, because you won't be adding to your Necron count and thus be extremely vulnerable to phase out. The opponent will go for the rest of your army and just leave your monoliths in peace.
    Using monoliths for teleporting out of close combat was ultra useful in fourth edition, but fifth edition is a time of quickly and decisively ending close combats, more often than not ending in a sweeping advance. So chances are there will be nothing left to teleport.
    Two monoliths in larger armies can be totally viable, though. If you are willing to take the risk of getting sweeped (it's not that big if you choose what unit you assault and get the charge off, but that way you will have to make it through two assault phases, so it's better to just bait something into charging you) you can pull enemy units together in the assault, teleport out of it, and particle whip pie plate the attacker models. Just a nasty idea.

    I don't agree that a heavy destroyer is worse than a lascannon (its effective range is the same, as is its S and AP, it is mobile and mounting on a tough and possibly revivable body) but I do agree that standard destroyers are a better choice. Squads of three are wiped out too easily, so WBB can too easily be denied. The destroyers are perfect for taking out transports, and their mass fire can even effectively render heavy tanks useless, not to speak of their obvious superiority against infantry and their higher durable (on a per points level).
    So take many of these, they are actually one of the very best units in the whole game with an awesome weapon, awesome maneuverability, and an awesome carrying platform...

    The tomb spyders are okay. Personally I don't like them very much, but with some lists they work pretty well.
    They are good to shield the flanks of your phalanx, for example, as a speed bump against any close combat units and such. If you use two squads of destroyers or heavy destroyers or whatever you don't want wiped out in a single turn or else you'd be denied WBB you can then roll on of those squads each along one side of your phalanx, so each is in range of a tomb spyder while the two squads are far enough from one another to make it very unlikely that they get annihilated in the same turn.
    Tomb spyders are best used in pairs, I think, and I wouldn't risk producing any scarabs. Since 5th uses the higher T if they is no majority in a squad you might want to risk producing one scarab base, but you could suffer a wound an you make yourself very vulnerable to templates (increase your cover save too, though).


    It would be quite sad if your Necrons couldn't have any fun in 5th edition. They're used to slumbering for many years, but that should be fluff only!
    I'm sure there's lots of useful advice out there to make your Necron army competitive. Just give it a try. It can't go worse than wrong, right?

  5. #4
    Senior Member Lemt's Avatar
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    104 (x4)

    I have played 1500 games with 2 liths and the Deceiver, and that's how I like my army. You have enough points for a rez lord and 20 warriors, plus whatever other unit you fancy.
    Necron Army Building Maxima: Beware of Phase Out
    Tervigon Conversion

  6. #5
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    280 (x6)

    So you think that the old lists are still the best that we can do, till the new codex comes out? I tried the 9 Spyders list and the mass-Destroyers list, so I suppose I could run these again...

  7. #6
    LO Zealot Kelter Skelter's Avatar
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    it seems like it might be viable to avoid phase out while having 3 monoliths

    if you kept the rest of your army back and just wore them down with mass monolith fire i'd like to see an enemy try to sneak by 3 monoliths, they're pretty much a solid wall if you put them close enough together. especially if you deploy with table quarters, they might not even be able to physically get past the monoliths before turn 5

  8. #7
    This is for the haters... CrownAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelter Skelter View Post
    it seems like it might be viable to avoid phase out while having 3 monoliths

    if you kept the rest of your army back and just wore them down with mass monolith fire i'd like to see an enemy try to sneak by 3 monoliths, they're pretty much a solid wall if you put them close enough together. especially if you deploy with table quarters, they might not even be able to physically get past the monoliths before turn 5
    Throw some Destroyers on the flanks and they'll never break through

  9. #8
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by CrownAxe View Post
    Throw some Destroyers on the flanks and they'll never break through
    Deep-striking, infiltrating, outflanking, jetbikes, jump infantry, skimmers...

  10. #9
    This is for the haters... CrownAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Archer View Post
    Deep-striking, infiltrating, outflanking, jetbikes, jump infantry, skimmers...
    Won't have a place to land by spreading out warriors and other units behind monoliths, dead before reaching front lines, dead on arrival, dead before reaching front lines, really dead before reaching front lines, wrecked before reaching front lines...

  11. #10
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    531 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by CrownAxe View Post
    Won't have a place to land by spreading out warriors and other units behind monoliths, dead before reaching front lines, dead on arrival, dead before reaching front lines, really dead before reaching front lines, wrecked before reaching front lines...
    Hm. I thought we were playing Warhammer 40.000 and not hide'n'seek!
    Okay, I apologize, that was a stupid thing to say. Forget about it.

    Let me put it this way: your tactics look nice and they may work - for a very limited amount of missions. How are you going to capture objectives? How are you going to damage anything at all?
    Orbital bombardment, whirlwinds, basilisks can all still deal death from safely out of range and even out of sight and kill your warriors quite effectively while you will be standing there doing nothing. I mean - it's fine and yes, it will protect your warriors (unless against basilisks, how really pose a problem for this approach). But wait do you gain from that?
    You can't focus on not losing the game. You have to focus on winning it...

    The enemy will blast away at your monoliths and stay safely out of your weapons' range. Even if he doesn't actually kill any of them, he still isn't suffering from trying either.
    As soon as you open up the enemy again has a chance of sweeping your warriors in close combat and so on, and while you stay put, cornered and fortified, you will accomplish nothing but waste time. It will keep you from phasing out, but not from losing the game...

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