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I just got my own look at the Space Wolf codex. I definitely noticed that almost the entire army has a +3 armor save and Crazy psychic powers. Living lightning could take out all my broadsides first turn with multiple Rune Priests. This is going to be sick. Though I am really looking forward to fighting them none the less. Would Vespids actually be viable against them? They are pretty fast with great ap 3 weapons and I do believe they benefit from markerlights as well, right? Would the SW's mostly be running in small units? If so, I believe Vespids could do some damage deneying them their armor save and assualting first with an Int of 5. What do you guys think? Also, the SW are really scary and we need some solid tactics against them. Has anyone started a strong thread to deal with these CC Psychos? You know every 40k fanboy will be throwing them at us starting next week.
Given that the Space Wolves excel so much in close combat, you can be guaranteed your opponent will be moving as fast as possible toward your ground troops. That being said, the Vespid are a great choice for quickly eliminating those pesky Long Fang units with their 5 Lascannons. In addition, any unit that goes backward to counter your Deep-striking Vespid will detract from the strength of the phalanx coming right at you.
Also, Space Wolf armies can only ever include 1 Rune Priest, so no worries about multiple Living Lightning per turn. You can take Njal Stormcaller and a Rune Priest together though. If Njal can cast Living Lightning, then you are out of luck.
2H - LEGIO HYDRA
Where does it say that one can only take one rune priest? The pattern seems to be four rune priest with JOTWW and if Njal is included, thats two living lightning. Vespid seem to actually be great at countering this. AP3 weapons against their armor and high Int for getting past JOTWW. They also benefit from marker lights; though a full unit seems to be the only way to go and will most certainly die. My idea is to take the focus off of my long range units (HH & BS) so they can do their job taking out transports early. Does this sound possible at all? I am new to the greater good; though there are alot of folks who pre-ordered SW at my club and I know are dying to play them.
Forget the vespids. They're garbage.
Take more kroot and some piranhas and use them to block the enemy.
Everything has its uses dont bash a unit because you dont like. I have uesed them with some success. Now im not saying there lacking for there points but they can really cripple a unit of marines thats 10 or less. Though a unit of gun drones with them as a screen and they have a little better chance of surviving too.
They have BS3. So they miss half of their shots. There'sno way around this. They will not even get markerlight support. They got a decent weapon with AP3. This seems to make them good marine killers but they aren't, let's take a look:
6 vespids (cost 166pts) against 10 marines (170pts):
Let's say the vespids get the first shot since they can jump move. Because of their really low range they have to move to 12" range. They fire, 50% miss, so let's assume 3 hits. This 3 hits will wound on 3+, so there's a 2/6 chance per hit to do nothing. So only 2 hits will wound. In 5th edition I'm pretty sure the marines will have some kind of cover save ... but let's hope the best. They do not have any save and 2 of them die. So, now it's the marines turn:
They got 2 options, they can move 6" and assault 6" or they may move a bit so all of them are in rapid fire range. Let's take a look at this:
8 Marines rapid fire our vespids. They got BS 4 so on average 10-11 will hit. Let's say 10 hits. 4+ to wound so we got 5 wounds. Our vespids got aweful armor of 5+. So most propably 3 of them die.
Let's take a look at the cc variation: The marines hit our vespids. Well, we hit first but we got only 4+ to hit. Our 6 vespids have only one attack so 3 will hit them. 5+ for a wound means only 1 wound. This one wound will be likely saved by the power armor. Now the 8 marines: They hit us at 3+, so 6 hits. This 6 hits will wound at 4+ so 3 wounds, since we got our 5+ save one of them will be saved and one vespid die. So 1 : 0 for the marines. Also our vespids are bound in combat and will most propably loose. They may kill one or two marines but don't expect more.
In both cases the vespids get knocked out pretty badly and won't kill a lot of the marines.
Also, if you try to get some cover in between the vespids and marines to protect the vespids this is would kill the point to play vespids in the first place since the marines will also get the 4+ save.
Vespids are utterly useless. Also 6 of them costs as much as a Railhead or 3 crisis .... just think about this.
Vespids are garbage ... proven
Actually, Vespid benefit from markerlights if they still have their leader with them. This changes your argument quite significantly I believe. If they can get their BS from 3 to 5; I believe it could crush a ten man squad to the point you would want to assualt. Tell me what you guys think, I can hear the wolves howling.
Just tell me where's the point playing them ?
You need about 6 vespids to have working squad, now look, they cost 166 points.
And they depend on markerlights ... markerlights are rare. You have to use them in a way that you build a list that would work good without markerlights and add them so that they can do what they are made for, support you where you need them.
It's a big mistake to rely on markerlights. Don't forget that half of your markerlights miss. You don't have too many of them.
Vespids are aweful. Just think about this.
If you have 166 points you don't know what to do with, then for gods sake play a hammerhead or some crisis. For example. A squad of 3 deathrains would cost you 159 points. Yes, they are even cheaper. This way you got 6 shots that will usually hit. actually you got a chance of 79% that a deathrain will hit with both shots and 98.8% that he will at least hit with one of them. You don't need any markerlights do be effective with them but you can use the markerlights to negate cover saves or force moral fails. That's the point of markerlights.
Regarding the space wulves, I didn't read their codex yet and didn't know much about them. But just avoid using broadsides and play 3 railheads, put some deathrains in your list and get the standard 97point fireknive commanders. Then fill the list with some kroot and piranhas as blockers and cut down the FW squads to 6 men and let them stay in their devilfish. You'll be fine then.
Just don't play vespids ...
Well, I could always sub them before buying 'em. I got alot of ork stormboyz I could use. I will also try the standard deathrain list. I can usually do a couple games on our club's gameday. I know next week, at least 6 guys will be bringing their wolves in.
Since I didn't read the codex ... what's the dangerous point about them ?
I mean, I know they got some new stuff to force a moral test at some range.
Against this, the most dangerous target are our broadsides. The best defense is not to play them xD
In games up to 1500 points you'll be perfectly fine with 3 railheads. They also will deal with a lot of ther stuff thanks to the submunition.
So, what else ?
What can this little barking puppys do ?