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    Optimal Unit Sizes?

    Before ordering a new more models to fill out my units, I'd like to know which are worth adding to. What would be optimal unit sizes for Eldar units? I'm working with more of a balanced mech list where I'm taking a large variety of units with transports available for all. Here's my thoughts so far

    Banshees & Scorpions - most likely take 10 so they're still a threat after losing a few so I'll have to add 4 to each from the box set.

    Harlequins - 8 + shadowseer & death jester? I don't see the troupe master as being worth it for so many more points for 1 attack & Ld.

    Fire Dragons - I currently have 5 + the exarch. Would filling out the unit be worth it? So far they usually just nuke a tank after being shipped in and the majority of the unit dies shortly after. Maybe taking them at full strength they can do more after the first nuke?

    Warp Spiders - Again, just have the 4 + exarch right now mostly used for HQ or light vehicle hunting. They're expensive as is and I like them small so they're easy to hide, but would having more at 6, 7 or 8+ do that much more? 8+ seems a bit excessive...

    Hawks - I'm thinking of picking a unit up to fill out my last fast slot and get both skyleap & intercept to grenade pack for a few turns and help out with anti tank if they deep strike close to one. Considering not taking a weapon upgrade for the exarch since they don't seem too impressive. A full unit would almost guarantee a tank kill, but they're also quite expensive. Would the 5 + exarch box be enough or should more points be spent to make sure they last?

    Reapers - It seems like the strength of the unit is largely due to the exarch. Is it really worth taking a full 5 man unit or just stick with the 3 to take an exarch & save some massive points? Not even too sure about using them but at higher point games I do have a unit of guardians, warlock & wraithlord as a firebase to hold objectives. These guys could help cover them but get expensive fast too


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  3. #2
    Senior Member MrBenis's Avatar
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    Banshees & Scorpions - most likely take 10 so they're still a threat after losing a few so I'll have to add 4 to each from the box set.
    Only if you have transport, and it is annihilation. In objectives matches you're probably looking at two smaller squads being more effective do to; easier to hide in cover + more maneuverability. If you have a pair of falcons, that 36" first turn move can be unbelievably frightening for the average MEQ player too, provided that they know 15+ powerweapon attacks are stored inside.

    Harlequins - 8 + shadowseer & death jester? I don't see the troupe master as being worth it for so many more points for 1 attack & Ld.
    I'd recommend watching some of Fritz's moves with these guys, he tends to play kind of defensively with them, but it works out. Wait and bait. His website is here: Way of Saim-Hann

    Fire Dragons - I currently have 5 + the exarch. Would filling out the unit be worth it? So far they usually just nuke a tank after being shipped in and the majority of the unit dies shortly after. Maybe taking them at full strength they can do more after the first nuke?
    I've never understood the fascination players have for this squad. If you expect them to die, then keep the squad count low. Provided they take out their target, then the 1 killpoint doesn't really matter, considering the target is likely the 'tough nut' of the enemy army. If it's a matter of points cost/return don't forget that killing a landraider removes all the damage it would have done in later turns. Try to think two turns ahead at all times.

    Warp Spiders - Again, just have the 4 + exarch right now mostly used for HQ or light vehicle hunting. They're expensive as is and I like them small so they're easy to hide, but would having more at 6, 7 or 8+ do that much more? 8+ seems a bit excessive...
    This unit in large numbers is for when you have to shoot something, and guarantee it's dead. Consider using them for eliminating heavy weapons teams more than HQs, flexible movement will be more than compensate the initial time spent.

    Hawks - I'm thinking of picking a unit up to fill out my last fast slot and get both skyleap & intercept to grenade pack for a few turns and help out with anti tank if they deep strike close to one. Considering not taking a weapon upgrade for the exarch since they don't seem too impressive. A full unit would almost guarantee a tank kill, but they're also quite expensive. Would the 5 + exarch box be enough or should more points be spent to make sure they last?
    Highly unreliable squad. Low killing power against MEQs and FYI only ONE grenade per assault against tanks, not 1 per model. Under the current rules I think based on minimum squad size you're better off using two Vypers. Why? Vyper heavy weapons, fast skimmer (so just as much movement as the infantry) not to mention costing less and being harder to kill. 5's to glance, 6's to penetrate not to mention shooting back with starcannon/brightlance/misslelauncher/scatter lasers, ignoring terrain and generally being a pain in the ass.

    More to the point if you're wanting a largely useless fast attack option, you'll have better range with the vypers over the hawks so it's kind of a tie all up. Personally at 1pt/model difference I think you'd be better off taking another squad of spiders.

    Reapers - It seems like the strength of the unit is largely due to the exarch. Is it really worth taking a full 5 man unit or just stick with the 3 to take an exarch & save some massive points? Not even too sure about using them but at higher point games I do have a unit of guardians, warlock & wraithlord as a firebase to hold objectives. These guys could help cover them but get expensive fast too
    Cost of 3 reapers incl. exarch? 117pts. Cost of 5 incl exarch? 187pts. If you think you can get a good spread of crossfire go for the two smaller squads, otherwise I think you could save yourself a lot of trouble and just take the full squad, and use the 50pts saved on something else, like a few extra direavengers.

    Over all reapers are pretty lethal, I would recommend at minimum though if you are taking them, to have your farseer with them, guiding their shots, particularly if you're using the tempest launcher. Rerolling failed hits, and then with crackshot you reroll failed wounds. AP3 ensures that damage dealt is really felt, and no cover saves allowed.

    With eldar the unit composition matters so much more than with SM's, have you noticed? most of my opponents write up a list once they've asked for a game, obviously proving that very little forethought is required. Infact, one SM player tonight admitted he deliberately made a "gimped list" just so people would start playing against him again, due to the over-riding cheesyness of any rudimentary SM list.

    I actually felt kind of offended that so much effort required on an eldars part for a game vs his "I'm just mucking around" attitude really cheapens the efforts of threads like this. The idea of them just being 'friendly games' still doesn't make up for it either, it's like playing a game of tennis and having your opponent spit in your face before saying he was just joking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBenis View Post
    Low killing power against MEQs and FYI only ONE grenade per assault against tanks, not 1 per model.
    What?!? The rules for using grenades in an assault against a vehicle clearly state that you get one grenade attack per model. It's in the second paragraph in the box on the lower right on page 63 in the rulebook.

    I think you are confusing this with Death or Glory where the model that has been chosen for the act may only use one of its attacks against the vehicle performing the tank shock. Since you'd get an automatic hit with a grenade I'd definitely sacrifice one hawk for this attempt (not the exarch!). It's an interesting way to keep enemy tanks from moving around, not the most effective one mind you, but definitely unexpected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astynax View Post
    Banshees & Scorpions - most likely take 10 so they're still a threat after losing a few so I'll have to add 4 to each from the box set.
    10 Banshees I find is perfect but 10 Scorpions means you have one hell of time to use the 12' infiltrate rule. But then again I use them as 1 turn assault.

    Harlequins - 8 + shadowseer & death jester? I don't see the troupe master as being worth it for so many more points for 1 attack & Ld.
    Death Jester
    Fire Dragons - I currently have 5 + the exarch. Would filling out the unit be worth it? So far they usually just nuke a tank after being shipped in and the majority of the unit dies shortly after. Maybe taking them at full strength they can do more after the first nuke?
    5-7 is good that way you don't have much invested in a unit(plus you can give the harlies the serpent and dragons take falcon) that will be killed in a turn. If you want some more meltas put them in your harlies unit (always get WTF look when that happens) or storm guardians(I don't know but the dice gods just love it when I play these guys).
    Warp Spiders - Again, just have the 4 + exarch right now mostly used for HQ or light vehicle hunting. They're expensive as is and I like them small so they're easy to hide, but would having more at 6, 7 or 8+ do that much more? 8+ seems a bit excessive...
    Large squad helps just in case there assault move kills one or puts them in a position where they can still be killed
    Hawks - I'm thinking of picking a unit up to fill out my last fast slot and get both skyleap & intercept to grenade pack for a few turns and help out with anti tank if they deep strike close to one. Considering not taking a weapon upgrade for the exarch since they don't seem too impressive. A full unit would almost guarantee a tank kill, but they're also quite expensive. Would the 5 + exarch box be enough or should more points be spent to make sure they last?
    4+exarch if your going to use these guys there just not that good

    Reapers - It seems like the strength of the unit is largely due to the exarch. Is it really worth taking a full 5 man unit or just stick with the 3 to take an exarch & save some massive points? Not even too sure about using them but at higher point games I do have a unit of guardians, warlock & wraithlord as a firebase to hold objectives. These guys could help cover them but get expensive fast too[/quote]
    I have close to 20 dark reapers and I've never used one of them ever and won't. Wraithlord or War walkers are better choices then this garbage unit.

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    My general thoughts are full squads for melee units, the rest is preference. Fire dragons that are just going tank hunting work fine with 5 or 6, if you plan to use them for MC and tough unit hunting then go for the full squad ( the flamer for the exarch makes them a bit more flexible ). Reapers are a hard sell but yes the exarch is the larger part of the damage, the normal ones add some firepower and possibly an ablative wound. The spiders I find work best in the 6-8 range, to few and they don't hit hard enough to many and they start to be hard to move and hide. Hawks are generally taken as just the 5 one being an exarch to yo yo them.

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    Senior Member MrBenis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inian View Post
    What?!? The rules for using grenades in an assault against a vehicle clearly state that you get one grenade attack per model. It's in the second paragraph in the box on the lower right on page 63 in the rulebook.

    I think you are confusing this with Death or Glory where the model that has been chosen for the act may only use one of its attacks against the vehicle performing the tank shock. Since you'd get an automatic hit with a grenade I'd definitely sacrifice one hawk for this attempt (not the exarch!). It's an interesting way to keep enemy tanks from moving around, not the most effective one mind you, but definitely unexpected.

    I see. Is this grenade attack made in lieu of all other CC attacks or is it just an extra attack? It's nearly 4am here so bear with me.

    For instance I'm going to run an autarch on a jetbike, will he get his regular 5 attacks on the charge, will he have only 1 attack (ie the grenade) or will he get 6 attacks ie 5 'normal' attacks + grenade?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBenis View Post
    I see. Is this grenade attack made in lieu of all other CC attacks or is it just an extra attack? It's nearly 4am here so bear with me.

    For instance I'm going to run an autarch on a jetbike, will he get his regular 5 attacks on the charge, will he have only 1 attack (ie the grenade) or will he get 6 attacks ie 5 'normal' attacks + grenade?
    He would only get a single grenade attack or his 5 regular attacks, you can't use both.

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    7-8 Scorpions (including exarch) work well. I don't use Banshees much but a similar number would probably work, provided target is doomed.

    6-7 Harlequins (Including Troupe Master & Shadowseer) work pretty well.

    5 Fire Dragons, no exarch. Anything more than that is overkill vs vehicules and not gonna help that much against anything else.

    7 Warp Spiders (Including Exarch) Work well for shooting, add in an Autarch for it to work well in melee too.

    5 Hawks (Including Exarch) work well if used to harrass the enemy and support your other squads, they don't do solo well against anything but GEQ tho.

    I never played with Reapers (i find the model to look horrible, but that's just my opinion) so i will refrain to comment on them.

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