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Been out for a while, but have gotten back into the game, very prominently I might add. Recently played a game against a SM player, just a friendly Annihilation match, if there is such a thing as a friendly one.
Anyway, besides this, we found ourselves in a position where a squad of my Warriors with 2 Dark Lances had fired at some Tactical Marines that were hiding just partially behind a building. Now the SM player decided to Go to Ground on this particular spot, thus bestowing upon him a nasty 3+ Cover Sv, which just shrugged those DL shots off like a bug on a windshield. My Splinter's were out of range, and he figured that the Wyches that were advancing in the Raider could not get to them, with the Dissie having no effect.
How wrong he was! The Raider moves 12", the Wyches get off, and low and behold, make a 12" assault move! A black-plague rears its ugly head at the snoozing Marines.
But hang on, we have a little snag. My Wyches have Plasma Grenades, and they are ducking with an extension to their cover save.
We both understand that his Marines are incapacitated, incapable of fighting back, however I explain to him that the Plasma Grenades ignore all cover, so his Marines are toast, what with the Agonizer and god-sent W.W. Yet, he was adament that his Marines would still maintain their cover Sv of 6+, on the basis that while the Wyches are attacking the Marines are rolling out of the way of the fire from the Warriors.
Riddle me this: three possibilities there are to choose from.
1. He does indeed get his 6+ Sv from the attacks made against the Wyches
2. No Cover Save is conferred, and his Marines are strewn here, there, and everywhere
3. The worst of the worst and he gets a full 3+ Sv from the scenario before
I stated my case in the sense that he is technically not in cover, and I don't think his Marines have harnessed the special abilities of the Mandrakes, or have certain Lictor DNA in their gene seed.
In the end, because we couldn't agree, we rolled off for the two former options, and he won, meaning he would get his 6+ Sv, which in the end, he managed to save two from a grissly death. Next turn, he got his models up and destroyed... ahem, 2 out of 8.
Also just to pickle your brain more, (more of a rules question here) but would his models just get up, even though they are technically locked in an assault. Seems a bt crazy that the unrelenting Wyches would simply play fair and help them up, only to cut their head off and make them fall down again???
Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
He destroyed them ? as in smashed them to a pulp....Ducking hell...when will these nerdragers stop,it's as bad as the time when my friend put his entire vampire counts army in the bin and wonders why his wastes alot of cash on warhammer.
As for the rule,he shouldn't get the 6+ coversave in combat hense why it's a "cover" save and not a invun save.
Last edited by JeremyKyle; October 17th, 2009 at 13:52.
You never ever get cover in close combat. Once you charge in those guys bounce up and are in the fight of their lives. They don't "roll around" and try to dodge blows. He also fights back even though they went to ground because charging negates that, they'd rather try to fight back than lay there pinned and get hacked at.
Sounds like you guys need to play with a rulebook nearby, those are pretty easyish questions.
I think I must have read this three times trying to figure out what you were talking about.
The Prince is right. Cover saves are never allowed in close combat. What cover does is modify the charging unit's move distance (as normal) and initiative value (goes down to 1). Plasma grenades simply negate the initiative part of the equation, so your Wyches would be able to go first against the SMs (assuming they roll a 6 for difficult terrain while charging). Most Wych attacks allow armor saves, so those would be savable on a 3+. If your Succubus has a power weapon, only an invulnerable save can be used against it.
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Yeah you need to read the rulebook a few times...There's a simpler way to put it:Cover saves are never allowed in close combat.
Cover saves are only applied against shooting, cover saves are useless in cc.
Mandrakes for example have 5+ cover save against shooting and 5+ normal save in cc.
Everything else Krovin said is correct.
I could see if the complaint was plasma grenades counting as assult grenades so instead of intive value through cover it's at the same time (I've had to role off on that one); but cover save in cc??? that hasn't ever been a rule has it?
You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've had to debunk since I started gaming at my new shop. It's like these people are playing 40k 4.5 Edition. I guess it's cynical so say "Just learn the rules" but it's not all that hard. Also goes a long way to know a majority of rules before you play.
You've probably hit the nail on the head there, PoX, people who've played a lot of one edition but only casually can't really be bothered to scour a new rulebook because they pretty much know the rules anyway, that way they'll miss a whole load of stuff and not really know the new edition properly and end up playing a weird amalgamation of the rules, which is fine within the group so long as they're consistent. Its when you get people from outside the group then playing against them that troubles start!
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That's exactly what happened with me when I was getting back into it. I was thumbing through the book thinking "Oh man I know all this stuff backwards and forwards!" That I was like, you don't gain an extra attack with powerfists anymore? You can spread wounds around? Those little things can slip by you and make a big time difference.
I'd encourage people to play straight even in their group, one persons army might have a big advantage/disadvantage because you don't know a rule. Not fun.