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I haven't been able to find a game for some months now, so I can only contribute conjecture. It seems to me that the new Space Wolves would make a hellishly fun opponent for our Orks. Tough as nails, vicious in close combat, and with many cheap options.. I think they might take top of the list for my most favored opponent (previously Nids). But alas, I have to wait until my friend is given another 30 day leave from the Army to find out, as he will be the only SW player in my area.
So, what are your experiences facing off against the new Space Wolves?
After 1 game they seem a lot like normal cc-oriented sm's, they've got a nasty banner item that allows tons of cc re-rolls but it can only be used once per game, also have some crazy invul. saves so mass attacks may be more helpful than the PK reliance
Right now they're probably the best horde-MEQ army. The 13th company is a total footsloggin army with no vehicles. And their Rune Priests are just plain nasty. Imagine a power that will cause your nob bikers to pass an initiative test or be removed (no saves whatsoever and no FNP!). Well...they have it, and worst yet, they can take 4 RP's!!! Necrons, nidzilla and ork players are gonna cry.
Imagine 6 squads of 16 marines (15 blood claws + 1 wolf guard), each with 4 attacks on the charge or 3 if they get charged....and all with 3+ MEQ saves. And they're supported by thunderwolf cavalry w/S10 thunderhammers + stormshields and ultra-cheap/ultra-versitale devastators (long fangs) who can target 2 separate units.
Yes, the new wolves are very good and will give the orks a run for their money. The only thing ork/necron/nid players can be thankful for is that some of their really good units are really expensive.
A horde Ork army would mostly likely run SW over. They want to be in CC but you're just better because you outnumber them so badly. Some of their powers would hurt, there's some template ones but those aren't always taken, especially if your opponent doesn't list for you.
A mech Ork army would be in big trouble because of Living Lightning, JotWW and the fact they can easily field enough guns to shoot down Trukks.
If you field max Troops on foot with cover, you're going to have a fun game and win more often than not imo.
I think a footsloggin ork army will have just as much trouble. While JotWW is nasty and Living Ligthning is great against transports, the power that a green tide list should fear the most is Murderous Hurricane. 3d6 S3 hits and dangerous terrain for an ork mob...they'll be reduced to less than half strength by the time they're within assault range. And the worst part is that a cheesy wolf list can spam 4 of these guys!A mech Ork army would be in big trouble because of Living Lightning, JotWW and the fact they can easily field enough guns to shoot down Trukks.That would be fun, but if he knows you're playing the green tide and breaks out his Rune Priests, get ready to eat it hard.If you field max Troops on foot with cover, you're going to have a fun game and win more often than not imo.
There's a reason I said: if your opponent doesn't list against you. I always like to assume people won't because it makes for terrible games and players.
The army you mentioned is also very uncommon in the mountains of SW lists I've read. Even with those numbers, 120 Shoota Boyz backed by Lootas are going to dent a lot of those Blood Claws. I'm hypothetically speaking in 1500 points as well.
In an average game I give horde Orks an advantage and Mech Orks a disadvantage, although I'm not a fan of Mech Orks in the first place.
Wolves have many different builds - Loganwing (deathwing-type army), mechanized, 13th company (footsloggin), or mixed. Their 13th company is akin to the ork's green tide with mainly infantry and some long fangs for ranged support as well as maybe some thunderwolves for some ultra-killiness (their version of nob bikers IMO).
Actually the build I am talking about - the 13th company - will be a very common and competitive build among the wolves IMO. It's not a list designed against orks at all. And for it to work successfully, they need Rune Priests to give them the Storm Caller ability (cover for their footsloggers) as well as another power. Thus, I foresee multiple RP's to be commonplace...maybe 2 in a typical 1500 game and more in tournaments. They are as important to the wolves as lash is to a competitive chaos marine build.
Right now, people are still experimenting with the wolves. That's why you see all sorts of lists out there without RP's. But in a year or so, you're find RP-led wolves to be among the upper echelon of GT lists...much like lash chaos, mechdar, the green tide and air cav IG (or mechanized IG).
I'm aware they have many builds. I don't doubt some people will play the horde approach, however most people would take Living Lightning or JotWW over the other powers, with the cover and I imagine the DS power in the mix as well.
I think SW in general will be a strong army because they're new. Right now the newer Codexes are more or less the best. Eldar and DE are still very strong because they just have so much speed they can outplay new Codexes. GW is doing the 5th Ed power creep and if your army doesn't have a new Codex, it's an up hill battle in many cases.
Overall I think some form of Mech will be the more popular build. Foot SWs has a lot of weaknesses, even with the out of whack RPs. It's just how MEQs are in the current overall game. I do think it's cool SW can be different but I don't know how good all horde would be against a wide variety of armies.
To get back on topic it really comes down to the lists. What the SW players takes is more important because horde Orks has only a few inter-changeable parts if you want to stay strong. The SW army could run something like you mentioned, or a lot of cavalry, or put points into shooting and not just all out rush.
It's just my opinion the Orks have an advantage. Both armies are going to have cover but that doesn't do much for the Marines while it really let's the Orks step up. An all Shoota Boy build could really hurt on foot Marines and still keep it even in CC.
It's all purely hypothetical but in that one particular matchup, I'd probably be siding with the Orks more often than not.
Right now, I'm severely limited in opponents. As I've said. My main opponent is my brother, and his Dread Wolves (a Home Brew founding chapter that was founded on the old SW codex, moved to 5e Marines, then back to 5e SW)
No matter the case, we almost always play very fluffy lists designed around a free-form campaign style of playing. I most certainly agree with jy2's assessment, but I'm hardly worried. Even if he does begin to mudstomp the mudstompiness outta my Orkses, it'll be a fun game.. and then some ^_^
Personally, I'm not so worried about Blood Claws. They look fair-to-decent, but IMO would work best in a supportive role to Grey Hunters, who can be tooled to be viciously effective against Orks. (Against any army actually, 10x GH, 1x Flamer + 1x Special Weapon, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade = versatility and durability. The combination of B/BP/CCW, and Counter Assault makes for a shooty/defensive rhino-wallesque unit that would give my Orks a fair bit of trouble)
I'm looking forward to it
I haven't played against SW yet (been on holydays ) but from what I've read they seem to make shootas even better. Massed shoota and big shoota fire will still do wonders against almost every troop. Support them with deffkoptaz and lootaz to add some more dakka and thin their numbers even further.
But as I said before, I have yet to play them
Ork Latin Lover since 1980