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    Battlesuit layout options

    So currently I am just loading up on battlesuits, about 13 in a 1500 points game, and I have been using massed fireknife shots to take down opponents, and its not working too badly. However, the only reason I am doing this is because I need the plasma to take down the massive amounts of meq armor I have to fight against, and by god when it works does it work, getting into plasma range against marneus calgar and blowing him to hell is satisfying. However, i feel that I am not doing properly playing like a tau, (as in combination group effots taking down one enemy) but I don't really know what would be better.

    I am currently thinking torch squad (cus they are awesome) deathrain full squad, and then I am really am at a lack for what to take, plasma fusionand deepstrike with pos relay? I just love battlesuits and vehicles (I hate broadsides) they have never ever worked well for me, they never hit for me even with markerlights, and when they do they barely do anything to things even like ravagers, my fireknives have done better. I think they are cursed for me. I prefer fast travelling fusion pirahnas, but thats me

    however, what are people opinions on battlesuit team layouts?


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  3. #2
    The deep down truth Rikimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craig1r View Post
    So currently I am just loading up on battlesuits, about 13 in a 1500 points game, and I have been using massed fireknife shots to take down opponents, and its not working too badly. However, the only reason I am doing this is because I need the plasma to take down the massive amounts of meq armor I have to fight against, and by god when it works does it work, getting into plasma range against marneus calgar and blowing him to hell is satisfying. However, i feel that I am not doing properly playing like a tau, (as in combination group effots taking down one enemy) but I don't really know what would be better.

    I am currently thinking torch squad (cus they are awesome) deathrain full squad, and then I am really am at a lack for what to take, plasma fusionand deepstrike with pos relay? I just love battlesuits and vehicles (I hate broadsides) they have never ever worked well for me, they never hit for me even with markerlights, and when they do they barely do anything to things even like ravagers, my fireknives have done better. I think they are cursed for me. I prefer fast travelling fusion pirahnas, but thats me

    however, what are people opinions on battlesuit team layouts?
    If the Fireknives work for you then stick with them or at least a balanced amount of them. If you face predominantly Marines then it is better to use the FK than a Torch squad. The Torch squad can work against MEQ's but I would not advise it if you face MEQ the overwhelming majority of the time.

    I take the Torch squad but I face a mixture of opponent types and I have HQ Fireknives. I tend to use my Deathrains to slow the opponent down and use the HQ and torch squad to whittle away at the opponents units.
    If you are confident and successful using the FK squads then stick with them. If you want a Torch squad then you need to play some friendly games to get used to the units quirks.

    If you are set on change then a mixture of one Fireknife squad, one Torch squad (with Missile pods), a couple of Deathrains (two man unit at 106pts) and a Fireknife Shas'El would be an effective combination.

    I am however a bit taken aback by thirteen FK's in a 1500pt list because this is a massive point’s sink. To work well FK's need ML support and I would think it would be hard for you to fit them in with the amount of FK's you have.

    Post your list because it sounds very unbalanced and we may be able to advise you on tuning it.
    Two units of Firekinves, Two HQ FK's and a couple of Piranhas sounds about right in 1500pts, 13 is overkill and will usually end up compromising the rest of the list.

    There is no 'proper' way to play Tau. There are ways of playing that are more effective than others but the main thing is to play what works for you and a way which you enjoy. If what you play now works and you enjoy it then that is the 'proper' way to play for you.
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    okie dokie, here's the list

    hq

    Shas'el with plasma, missile pod, targetting array, hard wiredmulti tracker, , 2 bodyguard
    2 *shas'vre with twin linked missile pod, targetting array, target lock (total: 233)
    Shas'el with twin linked flamer, afp, hard wired multi traacker, hard wired drone controller, two shield drones (113)

    Elites
    Xv8 with plasma, missile pod, multi tracker *3 186
    xv8 with plasma, missile pod, multi tracker *3 186
    xv8 with plasma, missile pod, multitracker *3 186

    troops
    6 firewarriors with leader, bonding knife, (use devilfish) 75
    12 kroot 84

    fast attack
    6 pathfinders 72
    devilfish with multi tracker, disruption pods 95

    heavy support
    3 broadsides with target locks team leader, two shield drones, 245


    1475 if my math isnt off riki


    I was just going to add this is the first list of this type that I have used, usually its only 10 or less, but I was allied with orcs and as such, numbers for objectives wasnt really a problem.



    To be honest, I have't really found an all round set list yet, and as such am always changing it, so it may contain a variety of things at any one point, so if something isnt in there, it may well be later on, and not all my opponents are marines, but many have 3+ save, like mega armored orc nobs, chaos, eldar with scorpians/ wraithguard and tyranids with tyrant guard and so on so forth.
    Last edited by craig1r; October 27th, 2009 at 17:57.

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    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    One of the first things which strikes me is that you only have those Broadsides to deal with AV14. If I were playing you with my Space Wolves, the Long Fang Lascannons/Rocket launchers/Razorback TL lascannons would immediately target that unit to kill it. Yes, there are two Shield Drones in there but even so, sufficient amounts of wounding firepower will force saving throws, some of which are going to be AP2 thus requiring the SDs to make their Invulnerable save.

    Anything in that unit which fails its armour save is going to be toast due to x2 Toughness rule. With good rolls to wound and poor saving throws, this would leave my Crusader containing Ragnar, Rune Priest and 7 variously armed Wolf Guard Terminators unassailable until it was in your back yard. They would be targetting the Fireknives to remove your AP2 threat, leaving my Grey Hunters with a free run.

    A Fusion Blaster here or there on your XV8s might just be a good idea, purely for the security of anti-AV14.

    I agree with Riki that boosting the BS of XV8s really does bump their efficacy. A full Pathfinder unit would be better than a 6-man squad, mainly because this unit is known to be a fire magnet so the more bodies in it the better chance of retaining at least a modicum of ML support. Since your cost total is at 1475, you have sufficient points for those extra men.

    One other drawback I note too is that all your Elite XV8 units are not bonded. Lose two suits, the third one's gone as well on a failed Morale Check. 10 pts would secure that problem for each unit.

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

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    I would actually drop the pure anti-infantry HQ to free up points to get you a 2nd Kroot unit for 3 Troops. And Kroot are so useful that they're be points well spent.

    I would also split your heavy support up so it's not all focused in one unit. As already mentioned, putting all of your heavy anti-armour duties into one basket just means you have presented your opponent with a very obvious target.

    You can cut down to two suits in each Elite slot to give you enough points to do something more useful with your heavies.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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    so I am thinking of removing 1 suit from each sqaud like yoou suggested, giving me 186 points to play with, and also remove the pure anti infantry hq unless I play against hordes. this gives me an extra 113 to play with so in total that is 299 points, with which I think I may put in a squad of 2 pirahnas with fusions, disruption pods and targetting arrays, that will be 150, with the other 150, since I only have 12 kroot in models, I think I will remove a broadside and 70 points along with the 25 I have spare, and get a hammerhead, and use the and last 60 fill up the other firewarrior squad, and the 25 leftover points I have from not filling up the list, get 2 more pathfinders?

    so new list


    HQ
    Shas'el with plasma, missile pod, targetting array, hard wired multi tracker, 2 bodyguard
    2 shas'vre with twin linked missile pod, targetting array, (total 223)
    elite
    2 XV8 with plasma, missile pod, multi tracker, team leader, bonding knife 124
    2 xv8 with plasma, missile pod, multi tracker, team leader, bonding knife 124
    2 xv8 with plasma, missile pod, multi tracker, team leader, bonding knife 124

    troop
    12 firewarriors 120 using devil fish
    12 kroot 84

    fast attack
    2* pirahna with fusion blasters, targetting array, disruption pod 150
    8 pathfinders 96
    devil fish with disruption pods multi tracker 95

    heavy support
    2 broadsides w/ team leader 2 shield drones and targetting arrays 195
    1 hammer head with railgun burst cannons, multi tracker disruption pods 165

    comes to an even 1500, better list? However this is starting to turn into list discussion when it was primarily about battlesuit options so the mods should probably move this thread please,
    Last edited by craig1r; October 27th, 2009 at 21:32.

  8. #7
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    596 (x8)

    Ok, we're getting a tiny bit confused here methinks. Also, discussing weapon load-outs is not easy when the army list is not present, so it's a bit of a catch-22 situation! The list will always be discussed, but mainly from the angle of the preferred subject, ie in this case the weapons load-out.

    Battlesuits in twos don't need Bonding Knives since the unit can never fall below half strength. Saves you 15pts. However, unfortunately you've costed your Fireknife teams wrongly. They should actually be 134pts, so your list will probably be over its 1500pt limit.

    The Hammerhead should cover that area of AV14 which I was talking about, so the need to bring fusion blaster-armed XV8s is not now so pressing, particularly since you have two Fusion Piranhas (keep them separate and not as a two-man squadron, btw). I would however consider a set of Deathrain+ XV8s (TLMP, TA) for 106pts instead of one of the Fireknife units. The job of that particular duo would be to pop transports and other annoying things like skimmers. This will allow the HQ unit to go do something else with its high strength weapons.

    Broadsides should have Multitrackers if you're not taking Advanced Stabilisation Systems. The Team Leader would take a hard-wired Target Lock too. The unit will cost 190pts with the Shield Drones and so on.

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

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    Quote Originally Posted by eiglepulper View Post
    Broadsides should have Multitrackers if you're not taking Advanced Stabilisation Systems.
    Why? The weapons they have are designed for different purposes. The SMS can only threaten AV 10/11, which the railguns will (almost) always penetrate and a single S10 shot seems a waste against infantry squads.
    The only time when firing both weapons might be worthwhile is against higher toughness models, but against T6 the SMS will start to struggle.

    IMO if you aren't using A.S.S on your broadsides then they should have targeting arrays to increase their accuracy.

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    I always use ASS on my Broadsides, but on the few occasions I haven't, it has always been the Multitracker which has been selected. The reason is simple: as you said, RGs have little apparent use against infantry since they are single shot weapons, but add two RG shots which are pretty much guaranteed to hit with the Twin-linking to 8 shots from SMS at a unit which is within SMS range or whatever and suddenly you're guaranteeing two dead enemies (barring cover/invulnerable saves, of course) with whatever else the SMS comes up with.

    I use the RG/SMS/MT rarely, but did so recently against Space Wolves and nuked a 6-man Scout squad down to one model, which I then assaulted and beat to a pulp with the Broadsides and their Shield Drones.

    RG/SMS/MT isn't a common set-up as you say, but it does have its uses. Taking a T-Ldr in a 2-man unit and giving him the HWMT version just adds that little bit extra firepower for sneaky shots, but as I said I tend to be an RG/SMS/ASS man!

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

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    Quote Originally Posted by craig1r View Post
    okie dokie, here's the list

    hq

    Shas'el with plasma, missile pod, targetting array, hard wiredmulti tracker, , 2 bodyguard
    2 *shas'vre with twin linked missile pod, targetting array, target lock (total: 233)
    Shas'el with twin linked flamer, afp, hard wired multi traacker, hard wired drone controller, two shield drones (113)

    Elites
    Xv8 with plasma, missile pod, multi tracker *3 186
    xv8 with plasma, missile pod, multi tracker *3 186
    xv8 with plasma, missile pod, multitracker *3 186

    troops
    6 firewarriors with leader, bonding knife, (use devilfish) 75
    12 kroot 84

    fast attack
    6 pathfinders 72
    devilfish with multi tracker, disruption pods 95

    heavy support
    3 broadsides with target locks team leader, two shield drones, 245


    1475 if my math isnt off riki


    I was just going to add this is the first list of this type that I have used, usually its only 10 or less, but I was allied with orcs and as such, numbers for objectives wasnt really a problem.



    To be honest, I have't really found an all round set list yet, and as such am always changing it, so it may contain a variety of things at any one point, so if something isnt in there, it may well be later on, and not all my opponents are marines, but many have 3+ save, like mega armored orc nobs, chaos, eldar with scorpians/ wraithguard and tyranids with tyrant guard and so on so forth.


    HQ - Unless you're running a Farsight Enclave list, I've never seen a reason for bodyguards. But unless 2 commanders and 9 elitle crisis aren't enough for you, then go with them!

    E - Teams of 2 crisis are easier to hide than teams of 3, not to mention it saves some points. You could go with deathrains, torches, or firestorms ( yes I use a firestorm mon'ta ).

    T - I find teams of 8 FWs to be a fine number. Upgrade one to a 'ui, with a bonding knife. Each team should have a devilfish with a DP. I'd go with squads of 10 kroot with 5 hounds.

    FA - I'd make your PFs 7 or 8 strong, but drop the MT since your PFs shouldn't be moving around.

    HS - I'd make the broadsides a 2 suit team, take the A$$, a team leader with the bonding knife/HWDC & 2 SDs. The invul saves, plus the ability to fire after moving, makes them much more harder to take down. I'd seriously suggest a hammerhead with a railgun, as having both anti-tank/anti-troop power makes a HH quite flexible.



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