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latley Ive been trying to make up a hybrid list for eldar and im having some slight problems with playing them.
first off I hate playing with vehicles but I want my eldar list to have a bunch of warlock jetbikes with my farseer.
second off I love wraithlords and Love their models but can they really be jsut as effective as fire prisms?
third I want the wraith lords also because of drop pod fighting..normally my opponant uses lots of drop pods so the fire prisms usualy dont fly so well.
fourth I dont have the money for wave serpants for my troop choices.
fifth I love rangers but can they actualy hold their own as pathfinders with a 2+ cover save...
I want everyones input on hybrid lists between warlock jetbikes and wraith lords with mass amounts of elites and rangers and troops and fast attacks
No offense but if you can't afford/don't like armor, Eldar isn't for you. You can get away with some things, but DA's and Storm Guardians are your best Troops and they must be mounted, it just doesn't work on foot.
Wraithlords can be more effective than Fire Prisms. I recently talked a guy here into playing "Elfzilla", 1 Avatar, 3 Wraithlords, he's done well since than. He backs it up with mounted SGuardians and Aspect Warriors though, or it just wouldn't work.
Guardians with HW Platforms are okay, but you have no way to capture ground except moving T3, 5+ save troops. Not a great idea.
Since you are asking about an hybrid list you are willing to have some vehicles.
Wraithlords work very well as an anvil and fire magnet. So don't worry they can be worth as much as Fire Prisms.
Rangers only get 3+ cover saves, Pathfinders get 2+. Both work pretty well in a static position, so you either drop them on your home objectives in cover (were they will be fairly resilient to anything that doesn't ignore cover or you infiltrate them where you want to bring the fight (where the hammer and anvil will meet.).
Dire Avengers are too reliant on transports to work well without, but you could always use min size jetbikes troops to capture objectives and leave the fight to elites, fast attacks and the wraithlords. Obviously having part of your army less capable of doing their own stuff is a bit of a disadvantage. Wraithguards can also work as part of the Anvil, but then no more than one squad out of apoc else you will probably suffer from it.
Elite wise Scorpions and Harlequins work best without transports, Fire Dragons and Banshees are pretty dependent on transports. Small Wraithguards squads could maybe foot slog, but not sure.
None of the Fast attacks need transports and can serve as your hammer.
It isn't exactly relevant, but take a look at: Way of Saim-Hann
This guy has heaps of posts that will let you see how you can use different choices in the eldar army, sometimes in unconventional ways! (Scroll down his older articles)
Check out his harlequin army.
I have a box of 3 falcons, plus 1 painted and 2 partially paints/made WS sitting around my desk. I still don't like mech and don't want to use them eventually
That being said a starter box might be worth grabbing, if you can get one cheap (cough online seller) you save a bit and get a WS, WW, 10 guardians with HWP and 5 DA. That being said if your not interested in these units probably not the best choice!
Yea its an amazing idea!
Definately would be hard to play, and you would need to really be top of your game 100% of the time, but its just so cool!
Eldar do work better with a transport or two under their belt, but there is lists out there that don't require them to work well. I myself will run DA outside of a transport and place them in cover. I use them as my "anvil" so to speak like the pathfinder were mentioned earlier. Give them a farseer with fortune and place in cover. They have the firepower to shoot back and hurt. Granted, whenever I do this I have all my other DA's in Transports.
I call my eldar list hybrid, but even I use a few transports and tanks in the setups.
As The other have said, Wraithlords can be as good as fire prisms, in some cases better so go ahead and use them for your heavy support and anti tank.
Here is what I think you should use in your list.
Biked Seer council
Scorpions or harlequins (Both depending on points and enemy)
Jetbikes (Two squads of 6 or 3, depending on the points. These guys are going to save you a lot since they have the famed eldar speed you need.)
Guardian squad with a warlock for objectives
Pathfinder for objectives
Warp Spider are a must, once again, eldar speed.
Spears Are possible for counter assault.
Those units can be used well enough to make a pretty good list. Try using as many jetbikes as you can. Also, Getting the starter box from the internet would be a good idea I think.
Eldar Craftworld Igsolus-Toc (reset for 5th)
0 / 0 / 0 3500+
Tyranids Hive Fleet Oceanus (reset for 5th)
0 / 0 / 0 WIP around 1600 points
it all depends on what you mean by hybrid, the balance between melee and shooting and or the balance between foot slogging all fit into the hybrid description but you could make many forces from them.
anyways in my 1500 point list i run essentially 3 forces in one, a forward moving 2 vehicle kill group (doomseer, 10 banshees, 5 wraithguard w/warlock) that seeks out melee and can kill easily twice over their points cost. the second part of the force is the capture and control section of the force made up of guadians with heavy weapon platforms, 3 jet bikers, and a pathfinder squad, and finally the anvil made up of 2 prisms and a wraithlord which peppers anything that tries to attack the troops or elite kill team.
the general idea with hybrids from my experience is to have max flexability and multiple contrasting things happening at the same time like moving forward, backwards and supporting everything at once whilst abusing cover like you wouldn't believe!
that's my 2 cents for now, good luck writing the list
Under no circumstances are points well spent with a unit of DA, storm guardians , banshees or fire dragons without a transport.
This topic has been beaten to death and I will stand by my statement.
Now with keeping that in mind.
Yes, Wrathlords are a good good and are generally better than prisms in most aspects , except speed. Generally there are 2 good builds, alternatively there is a 3rd.
Build 1 for Anti Armor- Wrathlord w/ EML and BL and 2 Flamers
Build 2 for CC- Wrathlord w/ Wrath sword and 2 Flamers
You can also make a build for horde with shuriken cannons and scatter lasers.
The draw backs- No inv save, needs psyker near by.
I like this build....
2 Anti Armor wrathlords
1 CC wrathlord
10 Wrathguard w/Spirit Seer
Trailing Fortune and/or fortune/doomseer
Pathfinders on home objective
Warp spiders (deep strike generally)
Out Flanking Scorps
Farseer w/council on bikes
any of the very top 4 things mentioned in wave serpeants
Shining Spears (be careful with these guys)
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
The Prisms are ONLY faster if you have points for Stones. Otherwise they'll probably be staying still quite a bit. Not a big expense but almost a must buy if you want to get anything out of them.