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EDIT
anyway i was bored and i decided to work out the effectiveness of some tyranid warrior variants agaisnt marines, I might also do gaurdsmen but thats if I get enough replys...
standard warrior-
deathspitter
scything talons
toxin sacs(I usually take them)
to hit-blast weapon(small)-33% of direct hit-direct hit usually gets 3-4 models(3.5)
if your smart scattering doesn't (forgive my grammer by the way) change too much
(1-3 models well say if scattering)
so-33% chance of hitting 3.5 models and 66% chance of hitting 2-ish models.
to wound marines , its a 2+-83% chance to wound
that means- 2.5 wound on a direct hit and 1.6 wound on a scatter
BUT with a marines 3+ save on a direct hit you get 0.33 wounds
when you scatter its 0.53 which isnt that much change'
I usually take these in a brood of 4 so
direct hits with 2 and scatters with 2 =2.25 wounds
so use them deathspitters for high toughness low-save models, or rhinos!
now my favorite marine killer
warrior
TL devourers
bs ugrade
toxin sacs
(other upgrades irrevelant)
4+ to hit BS3 with re-rolls is 75%(sorry for stealing, thanks for the help)
4+ to wound S4 vs T4 with re-rolls is 75%
So you have a 0.5625 wounds per shot.
Or 2.25 wounds (4 shots) per warrior.
And 0.75 failed armour saves per warrior (0.1875 per shot).
in a brood of 5 of these buggers you get 11.25 wounds without the marines doing the armour save
so-3.75 marines dead-(but the dice gods hate marines where i play, and rightfully so!)
this above build is much more effective at killing marines that the next one by the way...
assault warriors
scything talons
rending claws
toxin sacs
I and WS upgrades
3+ to hit marines-66%-0.66 hits-2.64 hits on the charge
3+ to wound marines-0.66 wounds-1.74 wounds out of 2.64 hits
6 to rend-0.16 of that 1.74 wounds is going to rend
=1.58 wounds and 0.16 rends
witha a 3+ armour save the damage is neglible
but
witha a full brood of 5 of these you get-
31 wounds and 3.2 rends, not bad eh?
well thats it for now i guess..
comment and perhaps check my math for me it was rushed so it may not be perfect
also i know i was and idiot to try and calculate blast wounds but i tried...
Last edited by soul of the brood; October 31st, 2009 at 03:21. Reason: incorrect
Siggy.
Regarding the warrior with devourers....
Against T4...
How can you have a 100% chance to hit?
And 100% chance to wound?
4+ to hit BS3 with re-rolls is 75%
4+ to wound S4 vs T4 with re-rolls is 75%
So you have a 0.5625 wounds per shot.
Or 2.25 wounds (4 shots) per warrior.
And 0.75 failed armour saves per warrior (0.1875 per shot).
Sorry, but your maths is shocking.
Last edited by joebloggs1987; October 29th, 2009 at 09:07.
Chaos - 11W 0L 0D
Orks - 8W 0L 0D
Tyranids - 8W 0L 0D
yea sorry about that im a bit off
it was really rushed and i will update when i have time
Siggy.
May of been rushed but some of the basic maths is terrible.
The only way to ever have 100% chance of a hit is having BS6. Even twinlinked BS5 can't give you 100% (97.2%).
When considering re-rolls it is not done like this:
BS3 = 50% to hit therefore 50% + 50% = 100%
It is done like this:
BS3 = 50% to hit therefore 50% + (50% * 50%) = 75%
Basically you forgot to account for the fact the reroll only happens if the shot actually misses.
Simply rerolls are: (chance to happen plus (chance not to happen times chance to happen).
I like working with mathhammer (although sometimes the numbers are daunting). I am working on a spread sheet for tank armor values and % chance to glance/penetrate. But the shear options that units can have chances things ever so slightly and adds new rows and collunms to the tables. Warriors alone have like 5 different guns, several melee upgrades (rend, rend + scythe, 2x scythe), you can add a strenght on each of thoes previous options, so that right there doubles your tables size already. And on top of that, in my case with vehicles i needed 3 tables one for standing still, moving, and moving fast.
Personally i dont really try to figure out the math on blast templates because it all depends on your opponents placement. At the max of 2 inches coherancey and a 2.5 inch template even a direct hit can only hit one person. i just stop the math at 33% chance to hit and thats it.
Last edited by chrono10; October 29th, 2009 at 15:03.
I think the Warriors with deathspitters could do with rending claws instead of scything talons. The increase in points is slight and it will make them able to tackle much nastier enemies in assault. Dreadnoughts will be immune to anything they do in an assault without rending claws. I think that twinlinked devourers could be good but it is very expensive. Replacing one devourer with rending claws would make them much better.
I know I'm baing on about the claws but devourers are short ranged and run a high risk of putting the Warriors in a position to be assaulted or assault themselves. Also Tyranid warriors need to control the lesser creatures which often requires them to join in with assaults that Gaunts or Hormagaunts are involved in. This means some hand to hand ability is often needed.
Thats actually given me something to think about leech, I only really play large games so I dont worry about points too much as I can usually give these guys wings and still make their points back.
But that does sound good for small games as the reduction of hits would be neglible compared to the wounds.
I still find that warriors are above-average at assaulting even when they are geared up for combat, exept when the enemy has higher intiative.
I dont really worry about dreads too much as I can just launch a god-fex at it and the opponent usually just lets it die and the godfex soaks up a heap of fire.
Hmm, I think ive turned this into a tactics discussion... anyway thanks leech.
Last edited by soul of the brood; October 31st, 2009 at 03:13.
Siggy.