Welcome to Librarium Online!
Other (please specify)
I am playing my first apoc game tomorrow, and I had a question concerning the Ulthwé Seer Council formation. Can they take a Wave Serpent provided they could all fit? The datasheet never specifies, but I imagine they act similar to a Warlock sqaud with independent characters attached to it, which could take a Wave Serpent as a dedicated transport.
Nope, unless it says they get a transport then they don't get a transport no matter how similar they are to units that get one. Now they could get into a transport bought for another unit just couldn't start in it.
Hmm, that's unfortunate. Are you sure though? In this case couldn't a Warlock squad technically be taken as a Seer Council if you brought Eldrad and 3 Farseers and had them all attached to the Warlock squad? As such the Warlcok squad could take a Wave Serpent (as it states in the codex) with the independent characters along with it (as allowed by the rulebook). This squad would meet the criteria of the Seer Council as well as be able to take a transport. That's my argument at least.
But that is eldrad, some warlocks and extra farseers. Instead of the Ulthwe seer council from the formation. This means they don't have all the extra goodies of the council formation ( augment, and the extra stratagies ). If you were looking just for the models though then yes you could get a small warlock unit eldrad and a couple of farseers and toss them all in the dedicated transport of the warlocks.
The game has a permissive rule set ( because it is impossible to write down everything you can not do ), so unless it says you can do it you can't. In this case the only way the Ulthwe seer council can be fielded is detailed by the formation, it does not have an option for a transport so it is not allowed.
It has been a while since my last Apoc game but don't eldar have a transport with a full 12 man capacity in one of the Imperial armor books? If so then you could buy one of them and place the council inside of it to start as it is not dedicated to another unit.
Alright, I see what you're saying. Oh well. And I'm not sure if such a vehicle exists, but if it does that could come in handy.
That's true and I have considered doing that for other units in the past, but I will be using flank march and moving both the transport and the council in from reserve. If they have to come in separately, it's too much of a hassle to load them in the transport. And since the council itself gives me strategic redeployment, I can move them somewhere fast if I need to.
I've gotta disagree with nakaruru. If the "permissive ruleset" in this case limited you to only what was written in the datasheet, the formation would be unplayable. Nowhere does it list the point costs, stat lines, or upgrade options for any of these models-- does that mean they have none? There's an assumption that these models use the rules already provided for them in the codex. In which case, it doesn't require an explicit statement that they can take a transport, it's already allowed as a Warlock unit option. I don't think anyone would suggest for example, a Cloudstrike Squadron can't take Holo-fields because it's not explicitly stated in the formation rules, it's already an option available to the Falcon.
Last edited by Archon Charybdis; November 27th, 2009 at 18:12.
Like Archon said. The farseers and warlocks are bought as normal from the codex. This means the warlocks can buy a waveserpent, bikes etc. And the farseers are still bound by the IC rules.
Hmmm, reread the council formation and I'd be willing to follow that line of thought if my opponent wanted to do it ( Not sure if it is something I would be doing). It does open up some interesting points with other formations though. The Ulthwe strike force could in theory be completely mech if we follow what is in the codex and IIRC it was not allowed to have any tanks when it was a valid army list.
Does anyone have any examples of a formation that shows units in vehicles that are not noted in the formation itself? The Aspect assault wave and the guardian formation ( forget the name ) specificly note transports ( IIRC they are required ).
Another interesting thought is that if they are treated like they are from the codex you could buy the formation ( for the strategems ) then have the farseers, Eldrad, and the warlocks all at different points on the table, which seems more than a little odd to me if they are the seer council.
Last edited by nakaruru; November 28th, 2009 at 13:45.