Welcome to Librarium Online!
I'm not sure if I should post this here or in the Army list section since it's both asking for opinions on my army list and a semi-battlereport.
Regardless, this is an army I'm trying to create for an upcoming Toys for Tots tournament. Unlike most tourneys, this is a very "low-key, Soft, casual" tournament where they discourage Cheesy, Overpowered, Super-competetive lists. For that reason they disallow all named characters, which I'm fine with.
Here is a link to my army. http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...s-tourney.html
It's basically 2 Battlewagons full of Shoota Boyz w/ Deffrollas , 3 trukks with Sluggas, 2 squads of 9 Lootas, and your typical Warboss and Big Mek with KFF HQ's.
I decided I wanted to test it against one of the more experienced Chaos Deamon players at our local shop. I met up with him on Fri. Night and quite literally tabled him!!
I don't recall exactly what he ran, but I know there were 3 Monstrous Creatures (1 was some Lord or something with I believe a 2+ invuln save, the other 2 were Demon Princes of some kind, with 3+ invuln saves?), there were also 2 Baron something with 4+ Invuln saves.(I think they normally have a chariot, but he was using alternative models).
All of the above models had 4 wounds a piece. The rest of his army was something like Screamers, Horrors and 3 guys with Flamers.
For the most part, he got really unlucky in his saving throws and I got really lucky with LD test. I actually got assaulted by the a Deamon Prince and the Big Lord during his first turn. lost the first round of combat, but managed to win the second round (with a lot of help from my Warboss with 1 wound left).
The rest of the battle in short involved me wiping out just about everything that deep-struck onto the board. He had a couple of good assaults on vehicles and Shot up some squads pretty well, but like I said earlier, I managed to make on my LD tests and in the end I only lost a Battlewagon, 2 trukks and a Warboss (and lots of Lootas, but both squads managed to stay on the table, even one with just 1 guy).
About half-way through the battle, he mentioned that my list was pretty cheesy, and they might not let me run it. I personally didn't think it was, and at first I thought his list might be a bit cheesy...except that all his troop choices were pretty weak.
So, the main point of this thread is to see if my list was too competetive and if I could "tone it down" a bit. I certainly wouldn't mind a bit more variety, like Stormboyz, Bikers, BUrnas or Kommandos.
Your list seems legit. If you are just playing against this guy, you could tone things down since you rolled him so badly. For that tournament, you're good with what you have. It doesn't stack anything cheesy and has a decent mix of units.
Daemons get rolled by mech, sour grapes on his part.
"Too competitive for a tournament" makes ==My== head hurt. It's just so...ass backwards stupid.
I heard of a Tournament as well that had rules in it to stop lists that were "Unfair". The Example that I heard was no Turbo Boosting in the last turn to take an objective. I think that reasoning i heard was that not every army can do that so non can because its not fair. The concept of dumbing down rules just sounds mind boggling to me.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
40k has no comp rules for a good reason, the game is far more balanced than Fantasy. However, Orks are still a "Tier 1" army and Demons are not. If you both bring your A game, Orks should win more than they lose. If he's a veteran player he should know that and accept it.
Your list isn't cheesy, foot Orks backed by tons of Lootas are way cheesier than any Mech build. He sounds like a whiner and if they don't let your run that list, the organizer is a complete failure.
Normally in tournaments, being competitive is the whole idea.
Again though, I think the main reason they want to avoid named characters and Cheesy, Abusive or Brutal Army lists (like lots of Nob Bikers, Carnifex's, Land Raiders, etc) is because this is supposed to be a casual, charity Tournament (Toys for Kids and all), where people run softer, more fun lists as opposed to the more seriously competitive lists.
For instance this Chaos Deamon player usually plays Soulgrinders and really tough CC units but this time he ran.
Lord of change 250
herald of tzeentch on chariot, bolt, we are legion, master of sorceryx2 (110 each)
3 flamers 105
3x9 horrors with bolt-263 each (i think)
2x Demon prince, mark of tzeentch, bolt of tzeentch (140 each)
9 screamers-160 something
I'm not sure how "competitive" that is compared to what a Chaos Demon player could normally run, but the Princes and Lord of Change did seem pretty nasty with invuln saves and 4 wounds each.
In this player's defense, he wasn't really whining, he's actually a really cool, laid-back player who often lets me go back and correct mistakes that some players may not (like forgetting to roll for reserves or move a unit until the shooting phase. He simply mentioned that he felt it might be a bit too competitive for this style of tournament. I guess having 6 troop choices and 2 Battlewagons were the main reasons. I disagreed with him, but I decided to go ahead and mail the list to the tournament organizer to see what he thought.
On the other hand, since this is a "lighter" tournament, I definetely wouldn't trying out some different units that I might not normally run for fear of being obliterated. I'm considering dropping the Warboss, 1x Battlewagon, both Deffrollas, one unit of Trukk Boyz and the Gretchin, and maybe running 16-17 Stormboyz, and a Weirdboy inside a mob of 30x Shoota Boyz. Otherwise, I might try Burna Boyz, Deffkoptas, Looted Wagons, or Kommandos.
So again, what do you guys think? Would that be decent or should I stick with the list I got? How competitive is his list compared to mine? Does he have a point about my list being too competitive?
Daemons aren't competitive anyway, but that list is pretty soft. The LoC is garbage, Horrors are crazy overpriced and very meh, and Screamers just suck.
==My== problem with compy, soft tournies is that they encourage bad habits. Rather than rise to a challenge, people just call cheese and remove the offending army, stunting their growth as a player. In such an environment, Daemons, Orks, and CSM (the noobslayer armies) dominate since they can't compete well at higher levels and do an excellent job smashing up soft armies. We've got the same problem locally and it is maddening.
I totally agree with you ==Me==. 40k cheese is very different from Fantasy cheese. 40k has more competitive armies and more randomness, so it has an any given day feel. Fantasy has few Tier 1 armies and there are no ways for under-dogs to beat them. My shop is almost all about Fantasy, I've seen this in action.
Players who want to get better never bitch about losing, even to a list that actually is made to ruin dreams. Unless you're playing Necrons or swarm 'Nids you have little room to complain and people CHOOSE to play those armies.
Thanks for the comments again guys.
I was wondering though; how competitive can Orks be in more serious, high end tourneys? I thought they were pretty good around the time I got into 40k (beginning of 2009), but now I'm a bit concerned because it seems you guys are saying they don't compete well at higher levels, or they're very hit and miss.
Also, what is a "Tier 1" army? I'm assuming that means the Top Tier Armies, or the most competitive. But if that's the case and Orks are Tier 1, why can they compete at higher levels? I know they have trouble with high AV.
I could go on forever about all the competitive builds you can make out of 40k or any game in general.
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