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Had a unit of 9 Lootas. Seems a bit silly and nitpicky but it made a difference in my game
To calculate the Heavy D3 we generally roll a D6 and divide by 2 (round up) but i want to know how you calculate the rate of fire? Do you,
1/ roll one D6 for the unit and this represents how many shots each model makes
2/ roll a D6 for each model separately to see how many shots it fires.
I am not very good with the math hammer but it strikes me that statistically you will get more shots from employing option 2. My opponent stated that it must be done by option 1 because obviously he wanted less shots. for the three turns they were active today using option 1 I rolled 1, 1, 3 which meant that my lootas all fired 1 shot each for 2 turns then 2 shots for their last turn.
This may seem a stupid question but I feel a little hard done by because from a fluff point of view each model's gun would fire differently representing the randomness of ork mechanics...
Under the profile of Deffguns:
"Roll once each shooting phase to determine the unit's rate of fire..."
So, Option 1 is how you do it.
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I just can't see why everyone on this forum raves about them so much. They on average generate 3 shots every two turns of which they hit 1 in 3.
Today I used two units of Lootas and one unit of 3 kannons.
The kannons managed to kill a fire prism and a wraithlord! but my two units of lootas managed to shake a fire prism once and miss everything else!
in the words of Grax...you really are better off with grots ... (And their big gunz)
this is the fourth game I have played with orks and the same seems to happen. Lootas on paper seem great but for me they lack reliability in practice and never earn back their points.
does anyone agree with me or have I just been super unlucky?
Last edited by dafridge; December 13th, 2009 at 23:00.
Mine are very reliable because I get tons of fives to hits. I've killed a squad of termies on the first turn with 30 shots, and killed an avatar in two turns in a tournament before he even touched me....then they could also die from a desperate guy with orbital bombardment first turn....
The thing is they are scary for the opposing play they just need to be dumped in the middle of your side and it's a gun line over half the board, then if you have Kommandos, it forces them to move off that table edge too. The are a paper tiger but at the same time should be spending their first turn coverd by a big mek, this means they can either try to stop your 225 point unit with a 5+ save while you wheeling towards them or shoot for the BW try and pop them only to have the lootas laying cover fire, their point is to shoot for stuff they _will_ hurt not try to take things down
(I like burnas in a wagon a bit more than them tbh but the long range pow pow is always lovely for the borad controll and splitting their forces, which for orks are two essential things.
How many do you use? You generally need lots to get the best returns. They're pricey, but very little can put out that much firepower reliably. Big Gunz, Koptaz and Buggies are your other great sources of medium S shooting that can nail transports.
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I used zzzap guns the other day and took out 2 dark eldar raiders the first turn. It was game over from there basically.
Essentially you need lootas to be getting 5/6 results for their ROF just for each of them to hit once. I don't think they are worth it all that much as the average zzzap gun roll is 7 for strength and they hit on 4 instead of 5 as well as the added AP2 great for the odd marine or terminator.
Zapp gun may hit on 4, but like I said, one shot,..and the strength is always variable
Zzap guns don't roll to hit, which is pretty good. Still, there's always the chance they'll blow up or roll a 4 or 5 for strength. Destroying Dark Eldar raiders isn't really a feat either, I think I could blow one up by flicking a paper clip at the right place. I use my Lootas in this way:
Put them in a ruin (preferably with 3 storys) on the second story, and join them with a Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun on the third story (so that if he rolls snake eyes he doesn't take out the Lootas as well). Probably going to be told this is a really bad idea but it's worked for me more times than I care to count.
I also use them for psychological warfare, in a unit of 10 there is a possibility of them getting out 30 strength 7 shots against the unit of your choice. Yeah they probably won't get the full 30, and you can almost guarantee they won't hit with all of them, but that's not what your opponent is thinking. He'll be thinking "That unit can potentially put out 30 strength 7 hits a turn, which is an average of 10 shots against my tank, well...I better move it round this way instead..."
Lootas are my 2nd favourite unit behind Burnas, simply because they've taken out 3 Dark Eldar Ravagers, 2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks, various terminator squads, and probably some other stuff I can't remember.
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Let's compare the shooting of a unit of shoota boys (widely acknowledged as one of the most point-efficient choices ever!) and a unit of lootas.
A full unit of shoota boys is 30 models, each with Assault 2, so you get 60 shots. Ork BS of 2 means you're looking at an average of 20 hits. Performance against MEQ is 10 wounds, 3.33 kills. (Actually it's a bit less because you'll PROBABLY have a PK nob in there. Let's leave that aside for a moment.)
Let's take that 180 points and spend it on lootas. That will get you 15 of 'em. Deffguns have Heavy D3, so on average that's 30 shots. Ork shooting yields only 10 hits, but you wound on 2+, so 8 wounds and change. Against MEQ, 2.77 kills per turn.
So wait a second, the shootas out-shoot the lootas! Why take lootas, then? Part of it is because the above is a highly-idealized scenario. A mob of 30 shootas is big; if the entire mob is within 24" of a target, you definitely have a few elements within 18", which means your opponent is going to have the wind up - one WAAAAGH and their forces are in melee, where they probably perform significantly worse point for point than shootas. Your shootas are guaranteed not to shoot at the same target repeatedly because of that.
The lootas have 48" range. That's not just longer, that's beyond reprisal for most infantry in the game. It also comprises a huge chunk of the table, so the enemy is unlikely to be able to maneuver such that the lootas don't have something to shoot. So while the shootas won't be shooting every turn, the lootas probably won't stop until they run out of targets (or the opponent drops a pie plate on them, but the shootas don't like those much either!)
The lootas also have more versatility. That same loota unit, with its average of 10 S7 hits, is a definite threat to vehicles. AV12 will be rolling damage multiple times a turn, and AV13 isn't safe; the only thing that lootas can't scratch is a Land Raider, a Monolith, or the front armor on an MBT. That means lootas deny light
Against troops with less armor than MEQ, lootas have a significant advantage - AP4 vs AP6. That means that against half the armies out there, the lootas will significantly out-perform the shootas. The higher strength means that the lootas will do better against high-toughness targets - T4 and T5 are the same to lootas, but cost the shootas a third of their wounds.
The downside to lootas is that they are highly variable. Now, all ork units are variable in that they have a high miss rate - so better-than-average shooting for an ork unit represents a significant increase in hits. Lootas have that variability plus the random number of shots. If they're Heavy 1 for that turn, they're not going to do a lot of wounds at all (unless they're shooting AV10 or 11 armor, or units with less than 3+ armor saves, etc.) But if they're Heavy 3, they're going to perform 50% -better- than average, give or take normal ork variability. So sometimes loota shooting will stink, to be sure, especially small units of lootas. But sometimes a big unit of lootas will roll Heavy 3, open up, and tear the ever-living stuffin' out of whatever is down-range.
Of course, people tend to bring a lot of lootas, precisely because of this. And enemies who have experienced deffgun fire are likely to make a special effort to knock out those lootas, so they're going to attract pie plates. And while you can (and should) set them up in cover, making them more resilient than a unit of boyz caught in the open, they're not so much more resilient that you won't still lose more points in the average bombardment. Then again, any arty which is scratching your lootas isn't tearing into the front ranks of your boyz, and there aren't a lot of armies that can hold off unscathed units of orks in C&C.
Let's compare zzzap guns as well. They're cheap - for the 180 points above, you can take 2 full batteries, so 6 zzzap guns. 36" range, so they split the difference between the shootas and the lootas for range - you may lose a turn moving them up. If we give them the "ideal targets in range" scenario that the other two units got, then they're firing six shots per turn, 3 hits, average strength T7 with 6-8 likely. It's tough to calculate wounds with the random strength, but likely two and a bit against MEQs, and no armor saves. Against vehicles, they're better performers, but are even less reliable than the lootas; a quarter of the time, your shots are going to have strength so low that they won't even pop a trukk. The "crew shaken" result is nice, and you can desperation-fire at Land Raiders or Monoliths and hope you get lucky. On the downside, you've burned two full Heavy Support choices to get there, and really you should spend a few extra points to get spare crew and a Runtherd (or maybe just some ammo grots, to help make it a bit more reliable?) Less versatile, a hog on the FOC, and even though they get the special "crew stunned" rule for glancing/penetrating hits, you can't reliably hit the tough armor, and anything LESS tough the lootas would have turned into Swiss cheese, forget stunning.
Finally, don't underestimate the psychological factor. Many opponents will have had the experience of a lucky round of loota fire absolutely wrecking one of their units. Those opponents are going to put a higher priority on silencing the lootas than their point value strictly dictates. If this sucks units out of position, hey, bonus.