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don't get distracted by upgrades, its a transport
The down payment is too high, its a waste not to make it a battle tank.
its like duct-tape. take whatever heavy weapon fills gaps the best.
I have heard two main schools of thought regarding the use of Wave Serpents, and would like to hear different arguments on both sides.
1) The Wave Serpent is first and foremost a troop transport, don't trick them out, or add other pricey upgrades, keep em simple and fast with tl shurikan cannon and spirit stones. Anything else will add up too quickly, and will impede the wave serpents primary role of moving your troops around the battlefield. Further Wave Serpents tend to be carrying expensive cargo and only have 1 gun. As such they will draw a large amount of fire and a weapon destroyed result is far better if you took a 10 point cannon as opposed to a 45 point lance.
2) The Wave Serpent should be used as a battle tank that can also carry troops around the battlefield. No matter how cheap you make it, a Wave Serpent is no Rhino. We simply pay too much for it to make it worthwhile as nothing but a transport. The energy field reduces hits against our 12 front armor down to strength 8, and stops melta and ordnance special rules from taking effect, further the waveserpents turret is the most accurate position we can place long range anti tank such as an EML or a Brightlance. In sum the argument infavor of bigger guns on Serpents is that we are paying for a battle tank, trying to use it to fill the same role as a Rhino is not cost effective, especially when a Wave Serpent can use its speed, weaponry and rules, to outshoot other races battletanks.
In the long run I think what people do is make a determination primarily on whether other forms of Anti tank and use Wave Serpents to fill in the gap. Such as EML + Lance Wraithlords, one or two squads of fire dragons to deal with big armor, or even seer councils may mean taking scatter lasers or cannons on your Serpents.
Last edited by akaean; December 17th, 2009 at 06:24.
I generally run them as transports as well as primary tanks depending on what the unit is carrying.
If it is carrying troops I trick it out with something nice, a Lance for example to deal with enemy armor.
If it's carrying assault troops then I usually make it cheap since it will be moving fast most of the time.
I think the Wave Serpent is a better tank than the Failcon, yeah it's expensive, but there's really no reason to take the other one, what with the FP being so good in comparison and the Wave Serpent guaranteeing significantly higher accuracy for whatever weapon it carries.
tbh even i take it naked with shuriken cannon is still a tank. Not a battle tank, more like a light tank role. i`m dropping the troops or maneuvering and kill/damage light transports like rhinos or chimera`s. It`s mobility ensure me that i have chances against almost all armor except all around AV 14 stuff. I really like shooting Leman Russes in the back with a damn "transport" or ram it for a S10 hit
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
IMO, they are a transport that can occasionally double as a BL platform. Any chance to get a TL weapon with the unfluffy-but-codex accuracy of the Eldar (or lack thereof, which is the problem) is a good thing.
That said, it's pretty expensive for such an explody tank. I'd invest in some defensive stuff, personally.
Terminator armor going critical would be like Three Mile Island only very, VERY angry, and carrying a hammer.
LO rules in a nutshell: Don't post unit costs, be polite, rep posts containing of win.
Keep in mind that I'm fairly new to eldar, but from what I've seen this puppy is a monster with either EML or the ever handy brightlance. Twin-linked BS 3 hits often enough for my tastes, and I'd hate for all my anti-tank to be in my one squad of dragons... As they to only make it 1 round out of a transport in my 1k list (think it will be better once I get to 2k...just right now I'm a little poor on models). Plus, it is the handiest ram i've ever seen! Moving flat out gets us our cover save and a huge S hit, and once my dragons die I often go back and forth between enemy tanks until stuff just dies, while the wave serpent just keeps on trucking. I mean it took 15 las cannons shots a turn from an IG player and made it to turn 6 when game ended.
I used to be a hardcore supporter of going as cheap as possible, but I've recently started taking bright lances in lists without dragons, even though they're nowhere near as effective. It all depends on playstyle, and the list you're trying to build. Overall though, wave serpents cost a LOT of points. They are at least double the cost of any other army's basic transport. And if you start loading em up with heavy weapons, it just starts getting ridiculous.
Wave serpents are probably the biggest thing going up against us in terms of model count, which is one of our inherent weaknesses. I think if the cost of the serpent goes down in our next codex (which probably won't be till 2011) it will be a huge buff.
These days I vary between pure transport and Battle-tank. In some lists most of my Serpents are bare bones... Stones and Cannons. But recently I have found myself loading them with EMLs or even EMLs/Cannon more often. Especially since you can move 12 and still fire the EML/Cannon at the same time (assuming you shoot the Plasma variety of the EML).
I rarely put the Brightlance on the Serpent though. If I do have a lance its usually on a Wraithlord. Otherwise I leave the heavy tank killing to Fire Dragons or Warlocks on bikes.
I have to say that I am fickle on this point and end up running full-kit Serpents as often as I don't/ Sometimes in the same list depending.
These days, I am leaning toward Serpents with Stones/TL-EMLs/Sh.Cannon for the troops while my assault units, except for Scorps, get Stones/TL-Scatter Lasers/Star Engines. My reason being the Scorps will the cannon instead of Star Engines. With them outflanking I should get some good shots at rear AV 10.
My big reasons for the change to this config is the lackluster performance my stripped down Serpent give me. They don't die off too fast, but it is steady through the turns, and I'm thinking if I can take out an extra enemy transport or two, I can lower the number of Str 6/7 and melta shots coming back my way, thereby keeping my transports up longer.
It's the force multiplier theory: Two stripped down Serpents are twice as effective as one, but two Battle-Serpents are three times as effective as one. Because not only are they both as hard to kill, but they are both putting out more firepower, thereby killing more, which reduces the firepower the enemy can bring to bear.
Same reason three prisms are often twice as effective as two.
Arvan'drynn Craftworld - 15,000pts (deceased)
Tau - 2,000 points (atomized while on patrol)
I'm with darque on this one.
Wave serpents are our tank. Its the vehicle I trust most getting into the thick of action and taking hits, while dishing out the pain. When I equip it with a Shruiken cannon upgrade, even losing its main weapon doesn't neuter it. Think about this: On front or side armour, for S9 weapons, its the equal of AV13, and for S10 its AV14. No Melta spam gets through it, which instantly, in my mind, shakes up my opponents strategy. Melta spam is 5thed, and we've got a vehicle that's fast, a skimmer, can carry troops, has access to heavy weapons, AND has a better than BS4 chance of hitting its target on each hit? AND reduces shots over S8 to S8, AND ignores any extra D6 for damage?
My Wave serpents have been through hell and back. They're my tank of choice. I almost think of it as cheating. I run 3 Serpents, AND three Wraithlords, or 3 Serpents, 2 prism tanks, and a Wraith Lord. What do you shoot at?
And for what it gives us, its not THAT expensive. Sure, its the most expensive dedicated transport in the game, but its also the best. Only one transport vehicle comes close to it, and that Vendettas, but it lacks the shimmer shield, so even then, the WS comes out on top.
We've got it made, my friends. Wave Serpents are glorious.