Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Disclaimer: Everything you`re about to read is based on what is perceived to be mostly conclusive information regarding the new nid codex. This is a personal play test, rules can change until we have the new dex in our hands.
I tried out a game last night vs guard at 2500 points. I figured I'd share my experience as it surprised both me and my opponent who was nice enough to let me proxy a few things. The goal was to play a game using models I already own or could convert eventually with the exception of Spore Pods which I used marine drop pods to stand in. So here's the list I used: (All of this from the German translated summary and confirmed January White Dwarf points costs.)
2500 Points Outflanking Swarm
Hive Tyrant - Extended Carapace, Tactical Insight, Psychic Scream, Life Drain
Alpha Warrior - Lash Whip and Bone Sword, Scything Talons
Tervigon - Catalyst, Scything Talons
Genestealers x10, Adrenal Glands, Brood Lord with Scything Talons
Genestealers x10, Adrenal Glands
Genestealers x10, Adrenal Glands
Termagaunts x 12
Warriors x 5 - Deathspitters, Scything Talons, Landing Spore with Thorn Blast
Hormagaunts x 22, Adrenal Glands
Ymgarl Genestealers x 8
Zoanthrope x3, Landing Spore with Thorn Blast
Carnifex x 2 in Landing Spire with Thorn Blast
Spore Mine Cluster x3
Spore Mine Cluster x3
I busted a troop slot but didn't have ravs or gargoyles to take the place of a troop in fast. Hormies will eventually become gargoyles. I have a feeling Tyranid players will have a hard time with troop slots as we already own a gazillion of them. I personally am choosing to go heavy on stealers with a focus on out flank. I go into unit reviews later.
So, I reserved everything except the tyrant. The concept for this list is outflank and drop at point blank range and hope for the best. My opponent hugs one of the outflanking edges. Typical guard list. A couple russes, basilisk, vendetta, a ton of dudes protecting all his armor, hell hound, heavy mechanized on several veteran squads fully decked out.
Missions is objetives: 5 of them on spearhead.
Nothing happens as per usual with heavy reserves. Tyrant plays hide and seek.
Vendetta outflanks and takes out the tyrant with a vet squad. Ouch. There goes my bonus to reserves. A lot of my stuff comes in anyway. 2 stealer squads, fex, zoans, warriors, lictor, tervigon. Pretty much in their face. A whole lot of shooting, not many die. Steelers charge and kill 20 guys, about a 100 more to go.
Guard has a horrible shooting phase. 15 of my 20 stealers survived the barrage. Marbo misses with the demo charge, warriors eat him. Lictor bring in the remaining pod, termagaunts are in, eat ratling snipers. At this point my spore pods are starting to do some scary stuff, throwing pie plates and actually killing thigns. Stealers charge and neuter a russ, the other russ is shaken. Tervigon casts catalyst on warriors who end up soaking a lot of firepower. At this point I`m loving the Alpha attached to them who helps mitigate instant death shots. Tervigon spawns 11 dudes but rolls doubles.
A lot of genestealers die, they had it coming. Zoans shoot down a Vendetta. Bastone fails to hurt the warriors much due to FnP. Tervigon is making a mess of things and drawing a lot of fire. Due to his high wounds I think regenation is a great upgrade for him, will take that next time. At this point, I`ve severely crippled or destroyed a lot of units. Fex 1 eats a chimera, Fex 2 eats a hellhound. I`m backing off some of my units for the objective grab.
Basilisk gets a direct hit and kills the warriors. Synapse is lost and my little guys are freaking out. One of my termagants makes it to the objective, however. Broodlord finally makes it to the fight but almost makes it to an objective for the cap.
A spore pod killed most of a command squad by ITSELF. Got a lot of hits with its shooting attack and 7 wounds with a big pie plate. Strength was high enough to instant kill his commander, psyker and most of that squad. Ouch. The pods were very effective at building a wall along with the fexes.
Game ends with 1 objective taken by nids, the other 4 with nothing on them. Surprising, but that sudden lack of rear synapse made it hard to control the gaunts. But yay, nids win.
Most of this may sound like gibberish unless you`ve read the PDF summary.
Tyrant - Over all super expensive, has some neato powers. Wings cost a lot, this annoys me as I just finished my Flyrant recently. Died like a punk, kinda miss warp field. Dunno about tyrants honestly.
Warrior Alpha - Pretty badass character, buffs warriors into lethal killing machines. Bone swords are a win in my book.
Warriors - Ok so we lost ID immunity. The extra wound was actually quite useful. The alpha helped mitigate some instant death damage with his higher toughness and armor. Basically I was in cover and knew the alpha could take a battle cannon to the face and live. He ended up making cover saves and my warriors were unscathed through most of that heavy shooting. I`m ok with the new warriors.
Landing Spore - Smart players will learn to blow them up as quickly as possible. They have a crappy BS but with template options can deal a lot of high strength wounds. These became a huge problem as my four pods began to eat guardsmen and even started to damage transports. This is kind of a big deal. Mech forces are annoying as hell to our army. Just glancing and shaking enemy transports is a pretty big plus. Don`t underestimate the power of denying your enemy a choice to do something. In my case it was occupants unable to shoot. Transports unable to move to objectives due to walls of spore pods and fexes.
Genestealers - Cost less, can outflank by default. I have every single on of them adrenal glands and I loved it. Furious charge on stealers makes it way more reliable to bust tanks and vs guard, you need all the tank busting power you can get.
Ymgarl Genestealers - Mutations are nice. Higher armor is nice. Deployment is a little iffy but it adds an element of horror where your opponent won`t know where they`ll come out of. Cost seems about right if you consider the old biomorph costs. Kind of like a super reliable deepstrike with heroic intervention.
Lictor - Meh. I only took one due to reserves and effectively a walking teleport homer.
Termagaunts - Mostly useless as always, except now even more so with the reported loss of fleet. Nothing really changes, they screen and cap stuff.
Hormagaunts - Didn`t do anything usefull but I think they might do alright as a rear synapse counter charge - tar pit unit. Personally I might drop them entirely for gargoyles instead which are a much better value for what they do. I`m reluctant to do so however as this strikes me as blatant, `Buy more dudes!`on GW`s part.
Tervigon - Obvious choice for a lot of people I think. Catalyst is great. Generates scoring units... It was kinda nifty outflanking one of them because of the tyrant skill Tactical Insight. Lots of wounds, probably nice with regenerate. Will probably convert one of my fexes to be one of these.
Carnifex - The one glaring unit that people are screaming cost too much. I thought so too but GW might actually have done something right here. See, they`re expensive but I had to try them anyway. I put mine in spore pods and dropped them close to the enemy. They got perfect cover due to the pods. My guard friend fired a lot of stuff at them but did very minimal damage due to high toughness and cover. I took stock carnifexes which are dual scything talons... which let you reroll all misses. This is even more powerful than preferred enemy as it works on tanks. These guys made a mockery of armor and killed a lot of stuff. Think about the possibilities of them in a pod supported by other troops. That`s at least a couple rounds of shooting they don`t worry about before charging into something. My fexes did extremely well in this game.
Zoans - Not as tough but the high invulnerable save is nice. THE top unit to scare the crap out a guard player. They didn`t do as much as I`d liked I know the potential for awesome is there.
Spore Mines - LOL Ok so I won`t ever do that again. They are kinda nifty in the sense that you can deny terrain before anything is placed but apart from that useless. I would have liked to take biovores and give them a try but I didn`t have time to assemble mine. I have a lacking fast attack selection I was desperately trying to fill with something.
Well, I tried to be objective about all this and attack the new stuff with an open mind. This game was kind of a try before you buy session for me, especially with spore pods and a chance to test out new rules. I`ll admit that before this game I was very pessimistic over losing a lot of options I honestly liked. The Carnifex in particular was a huge double you to the tee eff for me as I tried to find why the thing costed about 50 points more than before (with biomorph adjustments from the old book) Thing is my fexes kicked ass. My genestealers were way more killy due to furious charge. The Landing Spores are actually pretty badass with the potential wounds they can throw down.
After playing this game and actually pulling a win, I felt like an excessive whine cake. Especially after fretting the last few days and worrying my guard friend was going to hand my carapace ass to me on a silver platter. Thats actually the real reason why I`m writing this post is to tell you guys we can find a way to make it work. And that`s with a lot of models people probably already own. It may sound bad but once we work out some of the new synergies, I have a feeling you guys might actually catch yourselves grinning quietly as your tendrils wrap around your prey... I did
Thanks for the report Aradai! I played a 1750last night against a Guard friend of mine with similar experiences, and I'm glad to see other people already jumping at the codex.
I tried a game a few days ago. My findings were that the lack of a 2+ save or an inv save really hurts the flyrant, that dakkarants with guard aren't worth it, and that CCfexes aren't even worth looking at. Other than that i found that devilgaunts worked quite well and that zoans get shut down hard by psychic hoods. Horms seem fine, though I didn't do much with mine.
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
Current Rep: 1337
"LET'S COMMENCE PREPARATIONS FOR RUMBLING!" Mono-Tzeentch 1:1:1
From what I have read and people I have talked to, drop fexs work. Walking fexs are iffy.
Did you make that list specifically to combat guard, or was it an all takers list in concept?
No inhuman strength is a big loss. The ability to take bolter rounds for save, S3 shots to mitigate (1/6 wounding him vs 1/3 wounding a stealer) and his psychic goodies all make him look very good on paper, but Im not sure he delivers for his point cost. What was your experiance? Thoughts?
As of Tyranid 5th Ed. codex I have the Gaunts I wanted. I did, however, loose the sniperfexs I relied upon and they were more important then the gaunts.
Yeah, a walking fex is even worse in this book. Has the same issues as before but add in the fex nerfs and I can't see anyone able to justify a walking CC fex. IMHO: if you want to take a cc fex, you need to take a few in drop pods to have any worthwhile effect.
Wow nice to see this. I just posted on the codex discussion forum about basically the same idea (using Warriors as an example of our new awesomeness) and I'm glad to hear the rather successful results of an actual battle. Well here's to us finding the best synergies in our new codex in the first week of play
So Flyrants are useless now eh? Then what can we use on the Flyrant/Tyrant to make it effective for its points?
Quote of the Week (Number 3) - "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument." - William Gibbs McAdoo (1863-1941)
Ruina's Hive - My personal Blog
Sort of. I wanted to test maximum mobility and outflank. Get in fast, kill as many units as possible, then use your remaining reserve swarm units to grab objectives. I consider it an all comers list in the sense that there is a good mix of anti tank, anti infantry and extra cannon fodder to screen and cap objectives.
Guard players tend to dig in. This list just happens to be their worse nightmare as pods fall from the sky all around them. Its obviously not infallible, I think the mystics that allow units to fire on deep strikers can be a problem. The sheer volume of pods, however, is going to be an issue for the guard. My opponent had a hard time with target priority. Everything was a threat and in his face to eat something precious. So close he wisely didn't fire battle cannons shots at point blank range.
Flyrants, they're just as killy and possibly more so with psychic powers. But... not without a significant price hike and without warp field. If you're going to spend that many points might as well get the Swarm Lord character. He is super expensive but might be worth it if used right.
That's actually my general opinion with whole codex really. When used right some units really come into their own. I've heard people state the new biovores suck. Ok, maybe against MEQ armies they're less effective but you can bet I'll use them against Guard, Ork and Eldar. Shooting guys protecting Russes and other armor will go a long way and let my Genestealers rip into better targets rather than eliminating that 20 guardsman screen. Gotta really think with combos to make this book work.
I want to see how people's opinions of what's become useless/what's awesome changes once they have a couple games under their belts.
"LET'S COMMENCE PREPARATIONS FOR RUMBLING!" Mono-Tzeentch 1:1:1