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Last week I was thinking: 'What things a Necron army really needs at every points level?'
While some surfing around, I came up with these (sort of) 'rules':
1. For every 500 pts. at least 1 unit of warriors (to prevent PO)
2. For every non-necron unit at least 3 units of Necrons (again, to preve
3. Always get a Resurection orb (500 pt. games are exceptions)
These are what I've found the most important. Are there any 'must haves' I need to cover?
Thanks for any reply!
I wouldn't say that a ResOrb is a must, more like very useful. 1500+ point games can be played without a ResOrb with some smart play.
This comes down to preference but I take it upon myself to always at least include a unit of 4 destroyers for mobile firepower and turbo boost contesting (not in 500pt games obviously). Since the emergence of 5th edition, I've seen people consider destroyers a staple unit.
I agree with the 500pt block building with warriors, its a good measure. Although when you start to hit 1800ish, you could take on immortals instead of warriors. But definitely the warrior unit per 500pts (mind you, 1000pts is already covered by the mandatory 2 troop choices).
On the note about non necron units, I would say that 6 or 7 should be the minimum size for scarab swarms to get the most out of them.
Necrons W68-D13-L10 (3rd edition codex)
Necrons W3-D1-L1 (latest codex)
Skaven still being assembled
These rules are silly and inaccurate
1. Warriors suck. They are just over priced what little they do. They just about never make their points back since they are stuck with Bolters and no transport vehicles while their high durability is easily ruined in assault. The reason we take them is because they're our only troop choice. Just take 3 units of 10 as it will help with objective missions. No more. Spamming warriors to offset PO doesn't work because...
2. The idea of spamming crons to counter PO is a fallacy. While it is increasing the amount necrons needed to be destroyed, you're increase of the amount of necrons on the field which increase the rate of necrons being destroyed thus off setting that bonus. Also spamming warriors is spamming the easiest to destroy necron that makes it even easier to lose necrons. When thinking about PO, think quality and not quantity (like Destroyers or Monoliths)
3. The best HQ choices don't use it. The Deceiver is amazing. This Powerhouse can rip through any unit easy and, being T8, immune to infantry fire and durable agaist strong weapons. The deceiver is a valuable asset to Necrons being a good assault unit and being able to tie up units that are potentially dangerous to our necron units. Being such a huge threat also will attract all of the amazing shooting to it and away from our necrons, ultimately increasing survivability.
I'll even venture to say their is a better Lord that doesn't need the Orb. Try a Destroyer Lord w/ Warsythe and Phase Shifter. You get a T6 Jetbike with 3+/4++ and WBB who ignores all saves and has 2d6 vs vehicles. It can rip through anything and has the speed and durabilty to do so. (also your 500 pt exception is just pain wrong. after paying for the manditory 2 units of warriors and Lord you only 40 pts left, which might as well be for the Orb for a solid 500 pts)
I completely agree with Crown Axe. In my 500 point games I use 2 units of 10 warriors and a lord with resurrection orb. The only reason i'm not able to use a lot of immortals in my games is cause its $100 to buy 8 of them. That is a real problem for me. GW needs to make like a box of five of them for $30.
WH 40k Armies (W/L/D):
Tyranid: 2250 Points of Awesome (5/4/1)
Necrons: 1000 Points (4/0/1)
Actually crownaxe having more warriors is good, they only suck because people don't know how to use them correctly. The only reason they are weak is because you think they are, they may not be as good as they used to be but they still work. in my 2000pt list I run 40warriors in 4 squads and they work quite well. Not to be rude but quality is not usually good because they are the first things to be targeted like destroyers even in groups of two they'll be gone in the first turn, I'm not saying don't take them but when you do you have to make the most out of them extremely quickly before they are destroyed. Even the monoliths are most the time a waste of points because they have such a short range and even if you deepstrike them their either gonna be destroyed up impact or last one turn then be destroyed, it's extremely difficult to make their points back and most the time people don't even shoot heavy weapons at them because monoliths have crappy range the only thing they are good for is porting necrons and making sure infantry squads don't stry to close and even then it's extremely difficult for them to do anything especially when they only move 6 inches per turn. Sure their durable but not that threatining.
Yea we won't have C'tan in regular games once new codex comes out they'll be Apoc I mean even the Deciever could fight Tha Avatar and win and only take a wound or 2 they are broken!
But I do agree they are extremely usefull.
I agree the jetbikelord is cool and is almost indestructable but at any point level (past 500) lords are really there to support necron infantry with the res orb to help them survive more
and even help repel infantry that decide to assualt your infantry, the scarabs, flayed Ones, and wraiths are used to harass heavy weapons and major threats not the lord. I've seen that having more warriors has been better than having more immortals.
Warriors are your most important unit and also your best unit you can't be afraid to lose them or you will lose them, they are much more durable than you think they are,warriors are your main force whenther you like it or not, they arn't weak they may have flaws but they arn't weak hell they can do more than your basic lasgun guardsmen can. You see your quality troops are there to support your main troops which are the warriors nothing more, if you rely on your elites and fast attacks you won't get far.
Their Nunmber is Legion and Their Name is Death.
I agree with both CrownAxe and necron. Yes, you may be confused by this but allow me to explain. The debate about warriors should be more about how many would you take in an Xpt game and less about whether they suck or not. The fact remains that you will need some warrior units for games but still have enough to purchase the more 'elite' necron units, range and mobility which the warriors lack.
Now, it is the general consensus that you would only take 10 warriors in a unit. So how many units per a Xpt game? Well, that depends.The minimum of two choices is often fine for annihilation missions, an additional one for flexibility in objective games wouldn't hurt. As pointed out in other threads by fellow members, chugging out warriors isn't the way to go. Yes, PO count will be high and you have a solid core etc, etc. but that doesn't really count for anything as they lack range and are fairly slow because have no transport (rhino equivalent) to compensate for it. Its important to have a mix, to have other units to make up for where the warriors lack. Having the bare minimum in high pt games would obviously suffer in objective and similar games.
I said it before and I'll say it again, ResOrb is NOT a must for mid to high point games (you might consider taking it when up against IG mech lists). You can just as easily fight a battle without a lord or ResOrb if you use a C'tan instead (ideally the Deceiver but that's my personal preference) and some smart play. The Destroyer Lord can be just as useful.
2 Squads of Destroyers (near each other) is very durable and viable for any game. And the majority of times, they will do a lot more than the warriors in a game. Unless I need a 3rd warrior unit for objectives, I'd take the 2 destroyer units over the additional warrior unit anyday (unless I can afford to have both).
Necrons W68-D13-L10 (3rd edition codex)
Necrons W3-D1-L1 (latest codex)
Skaven still being assembled
-The necron: So how should warriors be used?
They are SM with Bolters and WBB, and I2. But their inlies the problem. They only have bolters. They're only effective at killing anything within 12". This isn't a problem for any other army with rapid fire because they can put the unit in a transport vehicle thus giving that unit more mobility and protection. Our warriors don't have a transport or any equivlent, the monolith doesn't count since move just as fast as warriors and they can't sit inside the Monolith to avoid shooting and combat, so will have to walk up to the enemy, enduring the enemy's shooting before even getting a chance to do anything. If they stay stationary to get 24" of shooting they both lose killing power and are a much easier target to assault. This is why Warriors are bad to killing just about anything
Then we have survivabilty. Now i never said they suck at surviving. They're MEQs with WBB after all and can take a keep of shotting before actually going down. But shooting isn't the problem, combat is. They are just so easy to assault and they just dissolve in combat. Since they have bolters they have to get in assault range of anything to be able to actually kill it, they can't hide inside a vehicle to avoid combat, and lake the speed to run away from combat. Plus any dedicated assault unit will be moving faster then basic infantry speed. They'll have fleet, jumping, transport vehicles, jetbikes AND MORE. Warriors just can't avoid combat when your trying to shoot something with them. And in combat is the problem. We only have S4 1A at I2. That means we're probably going last, going to only have a fraction of the attacks dealt to us so we'll lose combat, then if we fail Morale (which which is fairly likely since the unit assaulting is probably good at it) we are just about garenteed to be sweeped with only I2. Sweeping advance will ignore WBB for both the Necrons that failed morale and the Necrons that we're already down since they count as part of the unit. We can't depend on dragging them from combat with a Monolith because they'll probably have gotton sweeped.
So tell me, how can a unit that is only effective while throwing them selves into assault range of any unit and being in assault and just about dissolve them when guns are put in their holster be possible used in a good way?
Quality is better then quantity. You are ignoring the massive synergy that Destroyers and Monoliths create in the army. Destroyers are Jetbikes with 36" range, this gives them the incredible abilty to avoid most shooting and combat. You can guarentee that basic infantry fire won't do anything and the enemy will have to throw the long range heavy artillery at them to get rid of them. Take 2 units because it will force em to divide they heavy artillery amongst two units. This is a good thing because it's drawing that heavy fire away from....
The Monolith!!! And by doing such will allow the Monolith to go on a ramage, which will certainlly hurt. 24" is not short range when combined with 6" movement. I deploy completly up witht the Mono, move up 6" and i can Particle Whip 6" into my opponent's Deployment zone and easily hit something. The Particle Whip is nothing to sneeze at with S9 Ap3 (Ap1 in the center) and an Ordinence Large Blast. This can rip through anything that isn't a 2+ armor save, which includes all vehicles. Plus the Monolith increase the durabilty of all my Necron unit's by letting them roll WBB again and help them move around a little bit. It's incredibly hard to just ignore it since it can smash up anything it wants to thus ruin key units needed to cause phase out. The enemy will have to focus his heavy artillery at the Monolith since it's the only thing capable of cracking its immense AV14 Living Metal armor. And doing so draws fire away from... The Destroyers!!!
This is what I mean when i say quality. The efficiency that Destroyers and Monoliths have creates very effective synergy that makes the army on a whole very powerful. This heavy weapons hanky-pankyeven extends to other units like Warriors. It removes warriors as a target for real dangerous weapons, leaving basic infantry weapon to shoot them down, which they certainly can handle.
Also to show that quantity is bad, say we have 10 Destroyer and a Monolith. I don't want to spam Warriors so I take just 20 and a Lord w/ Orb to support them. You however want to spam Warriors so you replace the monolith with a Tomb Spyder and take another unit of Warriors. so My list has 31 Crons and a PO# of 7 while your list is 41 so a PO# of 10. Unfortunately neither of us were able to protect our Warriors and Lord accomponing them from assaults so were kill leaving the Destroyers whcih were able to avoid combat and destruction being Jetbikes. I don't Phase out because I have 10 Destroyers which is greater then 7, while you do phase out since your PO number was 10 which you did reach so you lost (though i did too, unless I was able to draw it in an objectives match, or won in KPs)
All of this is what i mean by quality is better then quantity
As for the Orb, I agree it's great and probably should be taken. I was more argueing with the idea that it's manditory by presenting other great HQ choices (and saying C'tan aren't going to be in the next codex is a pretty lame argument since we're talking the current codex which they do exist in).
I completely agree with not spamming warriors. Although I'm new to Necrons I'm not new to playing against Necrons. I normally play World Eaters CSM meaning I run 24 Khorne Berzerkers with Kharn the Betrayer, all in transports and supported by a couple of Defilers. The few times I've come up against a spammed warriors Necron list I all but laughed and kicked up my feet. I do agree with running 30 Warriors as they are the only troops choice we get and we will need them for objectives games, but running Destroyers, Wraiths, Monoliths and/or a C'tan is pretty much a must as they WILL draw fire from the Warriors and thus helping reduce the chance of PO. The one arguement I will make for spammed warriors lists is that I did find it very difficult to lock myself into combat with them for more than a turn and my Berzerkers draw in a bunch of fire from Destroyers.
The number of warriors you use actually can highly depend on the points you play. I don't play 2k games, but I have found that in 1.5k games 2 squads is not enough, however in 1k-1250 games three squads is too many. So the 10 war / 500pts guideline may very well have some wisdom behind it.
Spamming out on warriors can be effective depending on the army you face. They aren't fantastically effective against vehicles, but firing at max range still allows you to start putting glances on vehicles and slowing them down. Also against shooting heavy armies like Tau or IG, a res orbed pack of warriors is invincible against their standard fire, and has plenty of staying power even when taking hits from big guns. Being on foot, this is something few forces can even hope to mimic. (though some can do this while being mechanized).
Really though warriors are basically the fodder of the Necron Army, which is honestly depressing saying they cost more than a tactical squad with basic fixins. Keeping them properly protected is a chore.
Guidelines for creating a Necron army are a bit hard to format. It highly depends on what sort of opponents you will be facing, what army style you want to use. And what sort of environment you are in. I play in a friendly environment instead of a competitive one, so I can get away with far more than say, PrinceChimera could when I get games in. As I'm not going to get slammed by a drop pod full of TH/SS termies, or Super Biker Nobz, or Nidzilla.
With this in mind, however, you can make some baseline guides, and then maybe guides specific to army style.
There is one guideline I CAN think of that works for all lists though.
-If something is worth taking, it's worth taking twice.
This is in regard to units such as destroyers, wraiths, heavy destroyers and flayed ones. To a lesser extent it effects Immortals and Monoliths. However that support bubble for units to keep WBB is vital to have around. Also having a second unit with the same abilities in case the first unit isn't enough is very helpful.
I second that one. And as for 10 warriors per 500 points. It's right for up to 2k but 40 warriors is enough until about 3k. So i would actually say the following:
0-750 1 Unit
751-1250 2 Units
1251-1750 3 Units
1751-2750 4 Units
2751-3750 5 Units
3750+ 6 Units
Its harder to get your head round but it works a lot better. The rest of the guide lines depend on your strategy but I use the following:
-Take something to save you from combat. Weather it's a c'tan, tooled up lord, wraiths, flayed ones, VoD, monolith you need something.
-Don't know what else to take? Take Destroyers!
-Take a monolith or VoD in 1500pts+
-TAKE A FOOT LORD WITH A RES ORB!
Ye Old Necrons (R.I.P.) (7000pts) W52 D5 L9
New Crons!!! (5000pts) W1 D1 L1
Blood Angels (2500pts) W4 D0 L1