Welcome to Librarium Online!
I recently played a 1750 tournament and a 2000 point tournament and both winners were mech Guard players (2 diff people)
I know you are all going to say Fire dragons!, Bright lances!, Seer councils!
I have tried all 3. never all 3 at once, as that army would be built to only fight mech guard and not everyone is mech guard.
Even with the energy fields, all the heavy weapons inside chimeras shooting out, and battle cannons, vendettas and master of Ord....just rain hell down on my tanks.
The only time I really have done well is with lucky wrecked rolls. I have tried flanking them to get side armor shots, but they just back up and force the front armor shot.
Dragons can take down a tank. Then get demolished the next turn, cover or not.
Seer councils can take down alot of tanks when on bikes and have had luck with them, but its just not enough usually, still so many tanks roaming around.
I would love to do a double seer council but its too expensive.
What do you guys do?
and specifically for seize ground, capture and control, and annihilation.
For seize and capture i am considering just putting them all in reserve and contesting/controlling them and holding out as long as possible, but for annihilation its just not a good day.
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
well a while ago i contemplated starting a mech gaurd list seeing the potential of so much mobile firepower, however it never came to be you know lack of time/ money and inspiration. however i did make a hypothetical list, and when making it i noticed some weaknesses. first of all the kill point number was extremely high ( 21 kill points total) and the squads were relatively easy to kill along with their transports vets or not. it is hard for eldar to deal with a mechanized army that also has more men and heavy weapons than you so you have the right idea by keeping your forces in reserve. my advice for you would be to take a healthy complement of wraithlords with flamers and missle launchers oh an the wraithsword helps VS vehicles. in addition to this mechanized storm gaurdians, and mech scorpions are good for taking out light infantry after the waveserpent has dealt with the transport. dont bother with lances as usually they are not enough to take out Leman russ squadrons as the only reliable tank busters will be your dragons and seer council. oh yeah and dark reapers arent a bad option either if you have points left at the end. other than that i dont know.... write up a list i find it always helps when you need to know how to deal with certain armies.
Hope the advice helps and good luck!!!
I was actually going to suggest Fire Prisms, the Avatar of Khaine, or Wraithlords.
Just remember that your Wave Serpent makes a S12 ram in a pinch.
Terminator armor going critical would be like Three Mile Island only very, VERY angry, and carrying a hammer.
LO rules in a nutshell: Don't post unit costs, be polite, rep posts containing of win.
Last 3 GT in my country were won by the same guy using very hard lists. Last 2 he used mech Guards with a huge multilasers/psykers/vendeta/leman russes numbers.
In dealing with these you need to see what are their strenghts and deny most of them. You simply cannot compete with their firepower. The guard mobility is high enough that you cannot dodge him. His line of armor is so great you cannot hide. So what should you do?
First advice from should be that use an autach and reserves! Reserve everything or almost everything, get him to run first and deny him 2 turns of shooting. Get in close combat. No matter with what get in combat. In my game with him i shot 3 transports, a vendetta and a leman russ. I killed in close combat 6 chimera`s and all his veterans. IG spam means ussualy can decide multiple combats. DO it!. Even your walkers can kill ig squads. Shoot and assault. if your troops are unsupported, just assault.
Our codex is getting old and the creep starts to hit us. I faced 90 guardsmen and 13 armored vehicles i had in the same points 50 eldar and 8 armored (including 2 cheap walkers). if he had used normal guardsmens instead of vets i would had faced around 120 and 1-2 more chimeras. You really need to use extreme tactics and have also a little luck. Decide where on the table you want the engagement to happens as you really need to use terrain to divide IG mech armies. Only their valkyries/vendettas can suppoer fast enough an endagered flank.
Remember that the chimera is now an oustanding transport, and vendetta/valkyrie is now bettar than our Serpent. IG only weakness is that they cannot stand in any assault. And our mobility is god enough to get in assault as fast as we can and survive the road till assault.
Tbh in the games against Blake my only chances were multiple assaults, multiple unit flaming and a refused flank/single encirclements tactics.
so far for me, guard have looked scarier than they are.
my current list has a jetbike council, assaulting wraithguard with yriel and a pair of prisms. vs guard i want 1st turn, regardless of the game type (usually i'm happier with 2nd turn). the wraithguard in their WS are on top of the guard on the 1st turn (gogo star engines) and the council will get there 2nd turn (fortuning means they're a bit slower). depends on the other guys list obviously, but if he has LR squads or some deployed close to each other i'll try and dual assault with the council and take both out in one attack. the wraithguard arent as strong at dual assaults (tho if i can get the lock on one and yriel on the other then its worth doing in a pinch) but will still make short work of tanks/chims.
the main unknown factor in these games (for me) is the vendettas. fast moving and dangerous. i'll try and give them targets in the form of wave serpents (at least the lascannon is pulled down to str and pot shot with linked-focused prisms s10 ap1 and scatter reroll (one prism out of LoS and the other has holofields). once the council is freed up from LR killing then they can help hunt down the vendettas.
basicly killing the templates is the 1st order of the day for me, they're what really hurt my council with multiple s8 wounds, individual wounds here and there (from vendettas or chims) are alot easier to soak up with fortune.
eidt: worth mentioning that over here we tendto play 1500, rather than the 1750-2000+ that the US seems to favour. the last guard army i played i tabled in my turn 5 having taken 1st turn, with (iirc) 5 LRs, 3 Vends and 4 Chims left in a smoldering heap. as the points go up that's going to get harder to do, and it does feel like the options i have to add to my army arent as strong as adding say 3 more vends. if i was going up to 2000 points, i'd probably look to 1-2 squads of fire dragons in wave serpents. they can get close enough early, so even if the transport is blown away the dragons will be able to shoot something meaningful before they go down. 2 jetbike councils is an option, but it feels cheesey and is alot of converting work heh. plus dual councils tend not to hold up too well against other armies which actually offer resistance in the assault, so i'd be wary of commiting too much down that route.
Last edited by eris; January 10th, 2010 at 12:05.
I recently did a tourney where I finished in 3rd with a 2-1 record. My two wins were blowouts and unfortunately so was my loss. Guess what I was playing against. I toyed with a couple changes to my list, first being an extra squad of fire dragons, but they're always a one-and-done squad. There's a couple ideas that swap fairly easily in terms of points, those being:
1) Fire Prisms
2) Wraithlords with brightlance/missile launcher
3) War Walkers with Missile Launchers outflanking
All 3 have their problems. Prisms can get shaken easily, as holo-fields won't help with that. I run a mech list, so it's likely that I won't have a psyker in range of my wraithlords to keep them from getting stupid, and War Walkers are just too fragile to deal with all the firepower the guard can sling around. So I'm sort of at a loss there. I know that you don't necissarily need to load up on anti-tank weapons, since chimeras have a side armor of 10 and we are fast enough to get around to it, so even serpents with shuricannons can help you out, and you'd just have to save your fire dragons for russes. I find brightlances being less and less worth it on serpents, since all they really do for me is either miss twice or fail to penetrate.
I'm really hoping we can find a solution to this, because right now guard is like my kryptonite.
a thought occurred to me after reading this thread. Harlequins with veil of tears. Cuts off most of their longer range stuff, and allows us to get into munchie range. It'll eat up guardsmen like no tomorrow, as for actual tanks, we all know every anti-tank weapon we have, I'm a personal fan of the firedragons just because they get the job done almost every time, even if it is a one shot deal... I've missed so many times with the bl/eml lord its not even humorous anymore....
1- fire prisms are simply way to bad now with a heavy 1 gun. i still use them for anti infantery purposes
2- wraithlords are easily to be killed by IG. way too easy.
3 - warwalkers with missile launchers are too expenxive for their points. best walkers are with cannons. If you outflank ussualy you kill any armor you get in range. Each walker can shoot 6 shots of S6 in side/rear armor = a damaged tank. Even scatter lasers walkers seems better than missile launchers walkers.
As is said the trick is to force them in multiple combats. I had a GT where a squad of 8 scorpions outtflanked a fire base of no less than 1500 points of IG (that guy just shot at me with 15 lascannos and 10 heavy bolters and deep striked some vets -i think they were vets). they killed a basilik, 6 heavy teams 1 comand squad and 2 platoon squads before they died. That`s in 3 turns.. Ig players tend to deploy in terrains or in armored colons. That way you have squads in a few square inches. Know how 6" looks and assault the far squad. keep your guys and first that cannot reach in base to base can assault anther squad in range as long it keeps choerency. This way you can assault multiple transports and so on. A jetbike seer council can do this in an excellernt way. Position yourself good. Divide their army. Mech IG are mobile but not as much as us. I remembered a game where i deployed 3000 points of Eldar in 15" wide left flank and killed half of enemy army before the second half have time to arrive. It is our only chance with our low survivability. And use reserves or bait units.That way you control the game.
hmm double post
Last edited by niraco; January 10th, 2010 at 23:32.
If psykers are being used, take Runes of Warding. With their pathetic leadership 9, each cast will almost certainly resolve in multiple psykers being shot by their overseer.