Venomthropes, Gargoyles, and Tank-busting - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Venomthropes, Gargoyles, and Tank-busting

    Hey all,

    I'm a 'nids noob, and I have a few basic questions that I am hoping you all can help me with.

    1) Venomthropes - I think they're great for a cover save, but so far they've been useless for me in games because they get shot down with a lascannon at the start of the first shooting phase, and insta-die. And then for the remainder of turn 1's shooting phase, I'm stuck without that 5+ cover save aura for my army. Has anyone been able to keep their venomthropes alive for more than 1 turn? For their point cost, I'm finding them to not be worth taking in my lists, mainly because they don't even get to use their cover save for a single turn when they die at the start of the shooting phase, and they are pretty squishy with 4 toughness.

    2) Gargoyles - It seems like most people take at least one squad of these in their lists, and I'm not sure of their purpose.. I'm sure I just don't understand how to use them correctly. I can see how their fast speed makes them good at contesting objectives, and even though they're weak, with a big enough squad they could probably tar-pit an enemy squad decently. But are those their only purposes? I can't see them doing any damage to a squad with their guns, or with their 1 attack in assault, even with a large squad.

    3) Tank-bustin:

    How do you all handle mechanized armies with your tourney lists? I just ran a 1250 point army against a random opponent, who ended up having a mechanized tau army. My list had a tervigon, trygon, and 2 zoanthropes, which was clearly not enough anti-tank. But looking at the army lists that most people have been posting, nobody seems to have much anti-tank in their lists unless they are relying on trygons/mawlocs to bring the tanks down. And with having to rely on deepstrike for the trygon to reach the vehicles as quick as possible, the odds of killing a vehicle early on are fairly low. If you're lucky, you'll be able to chase down a vehicle and assault it the turn after you deepstrike in, which would probably be turn 3-4. And you'd still be hitting the vehicle on 6's if it moved 12" the previous turn, which would leave you with.. maybe a 30-50% chance to pop the tank? Not the best odds for such an expensive model (against a mech. army).

    Zoanthropes are awesome at popping tanks, but with their short range, it's very possible that they would die from something like a railgun by the time they reach firing range. Then again, if you had an MC that the enemy would be eager to kill as fast as possible, then your opponent would have to choose between your zoanthropes or your MC.

    I'm thinking of regularly having either 2 hive guards + 2 zoanthropes in my army list, or 4 zoanthropes. Having so many zoanthropes would justify their point cost because of their awesome anti-marine shooting as well as their anti-tank. And the hive guards seem great because they can ignore cover and are pretty tough to kill.

    What do you all think?

    Thanks in advance.


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  3. #2
    Bugs'r us! Blood_Lord's Avatar
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    Venomthrope's should be hidden behind big and nasty mc's...

    Being a big fan of Gargoyles, i think I can explain. They're fast and cheap. With their guns the can just soften up the enemy or take lucky shots at AV10. The bodies can easily provide cover because they're high up in the sky. And against low toughness or when upgrades they can do a decent amount of damage to infantry.

    Try mycetic spores with zoanthropes. And anything with S4 will do a decent job against most vehicles due to their rear AV10.
    'Thou shalt not refer to the Adeptus Soritas as "Bolter Bitches" nor shalt thou go anywhere near our sisters during the time of the "Red Rage," lest thou wishes to be the first human to enter orbit without the aid of a shuttle.'

  4. #3
    Senior Member TamCoan's Avatar
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    Hello and welcome!

    1) I agree on the venomthrope. They die way too fast and a cover save of 5+ really doesn't keep anything alive. If you do want to take them, try hiding them behind some MCs.

    2) Not sure on the gargoyles as I haven't taken them yet. I know they have some pretty niffty abilities, I just have to read up on them.

    3) I feel your pain vs. the fully mechanized army. I see those more and more. (Guard with 12 armored vehicles and nothing else is quite common.) For tank busting I do a two pronged approach. Zoanthropes and Hive Guard are my first wave. Deep striking trygon and fexes are my second. Has worked out very well for me, even against the fully mechanized lists that are so dominate now. Always keep in mind that a ranged fex is almost as effective in CC as a CC fex when assaulting a tank.

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    Thanks for the responses.

    As for hiding the venomthropes behind MC's, I don't think that's possible? Well, I mean they'd get a 4+ cover save from being mostly obscured, but they can still be shot. The way I understand the LoS rules, if you can see even 1% of a model you can shoot it, right?

  6. #5
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    1) I totally agree with you, Venomthrope drop like flies to any heavy weapon shooting. I think you would need a team of 3 hiding behind fex or tervigon to make sure they survive (cover save 4+) and that's a lot of point stuck in defense. Points that would have been better invested elsewhere.

    2) Like termagants, you probably can't count on them to do any significative damage and should be treated as living shield or throw away unit. You can however use them as mobile cover for a flyrant! Just don't let your opponent charge your flyrant along with the gargoyles.

    3) I would suggest getting hive guard before getting a second unit of zoan. The problem being that some armies have defence against psychic power. Tyranids always had a problem of not having enough anti-tank. Attacking tanks with MC are another way of destroying tanks, but don't forget that you can do so with about any tyranid (even the hormies have s4 with furious charge, which is enough to glance AV10 ). What we struggle most against are Land Raiders but the new zoan can now take care of it.

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    Bugs'r us! Blood_Lord's Avatar
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    Yes, that depends on how you convert your mc's
    I think my Tervigon's for an example will probably be able to hide anything smaller than a MC. Keep in mind it's the body that has to be hidden, wings and stuff don't matter.
    'Thou shalt not refer to the Adeptus Soritas as "Bolter Bitches" nor shalt thou go anywhere near our sisters during the time of the "Red Rage," lest thou wishes to be the first human to enter orbit without the aid of a shuttle.'

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    Member Santawraith's Avatar
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    In a game I played last night i used gargoyles with the parasite. It was a awsome force.

    But like is said above they didnt do much real damage but did tie up a squad of terminators in a suicide charge(yes was intended)

    Which did allow my trygon to do what he did best. I do plan on fielding gargoyles again.

  9. #8
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    hide venomthropes behind MCs as people have suggested and for tank busting i use tyranofexes, a flyrant and hive guard. as for the gargoyles, how about getting a tervigon and FNP them?
    thanks
    antique_nova
    Superior stamina may win battles, but the ability to quickly recover wins wars.

  10. #9
    Blood Boy Leech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Lord View Post
    Yes, that depends on how you convert your mc's
    I think my Tervigon's for an example will probably be able to hide anything smaller than a MC. Keep in mind it's the body that has to be hidden, wings and stuff don't matter.
    Mine's going to be way bigger, a Trygon tail done up as an egg-sac with a body on top carrying the weapons.

    Venomthropes are good. I think their habit of attracting anti-tank/anti-monstrous fire is handy. They can cause lots of trouble if hidden behind a bigger unit. Use Gargoyles to hasstle people, they are dirt cheap. Upgrade them with adrenal glands and they're still dirt cheap but way nastier. A winged Hive Tyrant could help in controlling all the Gargoyles and also wreak havoc on the tanks when it get's cloes.

  11. #10
    Bugs'r us! Blood_Lord's Avatar
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    Hmm, it's gonna be lovely to line up all the Tervigon in pictures, each with a termagaunt next to it for reference.
    'Thou shalt not refer to the Adeptus Soritas as "Bolter Bitches" nor shalt thou go anywhere near our sisters during the time of the "Red Rage," lest thou wishes to be the first human to enter orbit without the aid of a shuttle.'

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