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I have always been a man who maximises things. live. love. regret. everything.
but after seeing 6's post recently about never taking more than 6 FW's in a squad and always minimising the number of squads and keeping 'em hunkered down in the pathfinders Fish got me thinking.
In 4th Ed I always had 12 FW's mouching about in their devilfish dropping out here and there into rapid fire range then flying off. they were the bane of 5 man terminator squads lives. 2 units of 24 high strength rapid fire shots plus both the devilfishes shots forcing a good number of saves on them and you could put a high value target to the sword pretty well in one turn.
Now I see that not many people are maxing out their FW squads in 5th......even though troops are now the only way to have a scoring unit.
so whats everyone's thoughts? Am i wasting points and painting time on more FW's than I need too?
The reason what you're talking about was great in 4th edition was because foot-centric armies were the strongest army builds in 4th edition 40K. Vehicles were expensive tissue paper. They were points-expensive but easy to destroy. They were also monetarily expensive, too. This combination was lethal to effective mechanization and made infantry armies the best way to play the game.
All that changed in 5th edition. In one fell swoop, the new vehicle damage tables turned lascannons into terrible anti-armour choices and elevated melta weapons head and shoulders above all others. So vehicles became WAY more survivable. They have also been almost halved in points costs in the 5th edition codexes. And the only weapons reliable enough to take down vehicles are short-ranged, which plays into vehicles main strength: speed.
In 5th edition, a mech army determines when and where engagements will occur. Only a very few armies -- such as Tau -- can reliably pop armour at long distances. Most other armies can only pop armour reliably up close and personal, a much riskier position to be in.
Because it's not like killing infantry got any harder.
So in 4th edition, FWs were fantastic Troops. They were very effective at tackling the most effective elements of 4th edition armies. They directly put the hurt on the bread-and-butter units.
But in 5th edition, FWs are terrible Troops because they have no ability whatsoever to tackle armour. And armour is where the action is at these days. It's not like FWs were ever very survivable. Once they hit the table -- be it 4th edition or 5th edition -- they were easily killed. The only way to save them was to just totally wipe out the opponent. Back in 4th edition, that meant killing all the nearby infantry. Not too difficult for a skilled Tau commander to pull off.
But in 5th edition, your opposition is, at the very least, a solid mix of hard-hitting assault infantry AND vehicles. What can FWs do against that?
Answer: Nothing. Nothing at all. They just die.
So the proper thing to do is convert all the points spent on FWs in 4th edition Tau army lists to GUNS, GUNS, and more GUNS in 5th edition Tau army lists. And by "GUNS" I mean weaponry that is good against BOTH armour AND infantry. That means S6 and higher. S5 doesn't cut it.
And ALL 5th edition armies should follow this simple rule: NEVER leave your transport unless the enemy forces you out. Never ever EVER leave your transport unless the enemy forces you out.
FWs should follow this rule, too. After all, they are extremely valuable as objective holders, and they can do that while safely ensconced inside their ride. If they're on the table, they're just gonna die. So there is never any good reason to buy too many or to try and do too much with them.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
QFT.Originally Posted by number6
About 2 weeks ago I started a game with my FWs units on the ground instead of ensconced in their DFs. This is *completely* atypical of my style, but it was done this time purely because the game was a Spearhead deployment and I had an easy 30" range to fire on a unit of Terminators before they got to me. It would of course have helped to seize the initiative but hey, my dice don't like me.
What a completely stupid thing I did, having those FWs out of the DFs. Two units were pounded, one being obliterated and the other reduced to 4 men out of 12. It reinforced my previously held conviction (and obviously number6's) that FWs should be kept all snuggled up in the air-conditioned interior of a DF until such time as they a) have to disembark due to vehicle damage or b) there's an opportunity for a double FoF attack.
As to "how many FWs in a unit?" - yes, dropping their number does allow for extra stuff elsewhere and the idea does indeed bear consideration. However, because of my personal playstyle I retain the services of squads consisting of at least 10 men, purely due to my inclusion/retention of the FoF tactic as one of my favoured actions. Vehicles do star quite heavily in my opponents' armies, but I tend to use the FW + DF FoFs for anti-fast assaulters or tactical units, hence the preference for higher numbers in the squad.
In short: number6 is right in his opinion since it works for him. So am I since my choice works for me. Riki will probably have his own opinion too. It's really up to you as to what is "best for you" and what fits your playstyle/tactics.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
I have a total of zero fish in my army and don't miss it. I take three 12 man squads (bonded etc) and two squads of kroot (with hounds) and it works well.
In short, whilst mech is the balck of 5ht Ed it is by no means the only way.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
Hurray, Skar's is giving me a teensy bit of hope. I rather like Firewarriors (they're really the primary reason why I bought Tau. I didn't even know about JSJing battlesuits until my second game.), and while I suppose the best thing should be to load up on anything but them, I think I'll still stubbornly stick with at least 2 10 man squads or higher, just because I want to.
As for the whole "never let your troops leave your transport" thing... well, I'm doubly doomed. My second army is intended to be a drop podding Smurf force. >w>;