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Ok, this weekend I played another game against nids, and I think this game has a lot to say about what's a threat and also I think the core of my opponent's list (troops and elites anyway) are probably representative of a lot of the lists we will face. I ended up losing, but a couple dice going differently and I could have pulled it out, alas it was not to be. We played 2000 pts:
2 Flying Tyrants with 2x talons
2 Tervigons (With the tyrants giving them outflank)
2x2 Zoanthropes in pods
Doom of Malan'tai in pod
2 Carnifexes in pods
A lot of MCs, but the tervigons giving the potential for a hoard army as well Here was mine:
8 Banshees in a serpent
6 dragons in a serpent
2x10 Dire Avengers in serpents
10 Storm Guardians with 2 fusion guns and a warlock with embolden in a serpent
2 Fire Prisms
3 Warwalkers with shuricannons
The vehicles were all naked except for spirit stones on the serpents. Mistake #1: trying to remember your list from memory instead of writing it down. I ended up playing at 1850 to his 2000.
The mission we rolled was Kill points-pitched battle
I lost the roll to decide who goes first, and he chose to go second, then he reserved everything, so my first 2 turns were just spent turbo boosting to get coversaves and such. his turn 2 saw some awful reserve rolling (everything was coming in on 2+ and he rolled a lot of 1s) which resulted in a tervigon, the trygon, a tyrant, a carnifex, and the Doom coming in. I had clustered myself relatively tightly trying to protect back armor, but it didn't end up mattering since pods don't get mishapped and he never scattered anyway (every scatter dice he rolled was a hit. no lie). his pods got to attack the rear armor on some vehicles but didn't do any significant damage. I then got out the fire dragons and one DA squad and they each killed the tyrant and the doom respectively, and my serpents were able to kill a pod. THis turn was to be the highpoint, and it was all downhill from here...
My walkers came in that turn, not really on the side I wanted but I didn't think it'd be that big of a deal. Unfortunately a tervigon came on behind them and proceeded to tear them a new one. His next turn saw everything except one gaunt squad show up, with his gaunts coming out of the trygons hole, and the zoeys immobilised one prism and blew off a gun on both of them (despite runes of warding). I had no idea the trygon had fleet, so he charged my DAs, and by some miracle they stayed. I would later doom the trygon and have my banshees kill it, but they then got assaulted by the tyrant and slaughtered.
Those are the main points of the game anyway. By the end of turn 5 it was tied at 5-5 (point of interest: it would have been 6-5 my favor if my fleeing dragons had scored a wound on a pod, but i rolled snake eyes) but the game went on. By the end of turn 6 I was on my last legs with 2 maimed DA squads cowering in their serpents, and a fire prism with no guns. He still had a bunch of MCs, so it was essentially over. THe game went on to turn 7 but I stopped caring.
Anyway, a couple things to think about:
1) Nids still struggle to take out skimmers, but anything with 2 pairs of talons can really ruin you since they can re-roll misses. Keep your serpents away from fexes and trygons
2) I wasn't really able to get anything into a position to kill is little bugs since his beasties were so close by. any attempt to kill them would have just gotten me killed faster. It's tough to jockey for a position when your opponents entire army is deepstriking
3) Finally, I'd say my biggest mistake was playing it too safe. Mech Eldar isn't about being subtle, but I guess I was just reluctant to get stuck in with all the monsters. Yriel ended up wiffing on a fex and then the stormies scattered to the winds, and since I've grown used to yriel mopping up beasties by himself, that was disappointing to say the least.
Far from unbeatable, but definitely going to be a challenge for us. I might post more when I have more time, but in the meantime, there it is.
i saw a similar game happen with the nid player reserving and deep striking his whole army, and i think one particular mistake you made was putting anything out on the field in the first place. if you maybe had done the same by keeping your whole army in reserves it just might have given him a very bad day. same as with demons, i know you got shafted on the first turn dice but still a strategy for daemons would have worked.
( i say all this because unlike your game when the nids started to come in it was a massacre the imp guard stood 0 chance after turn 2) final tally of the match(kill points) 9 : 0 nids winning all because the guard player had his whole army out on the field with no nids to shoot. if the guard player had also reserved everything then the game might have turned out better
Last edited by amorac; February 2nd, 2010 at 05:00. Reason: misspelling
I have a mech/hybrid eldar army and a Nid army and I can tell you that eldar are the nastiest to face in the new codex(from what i've faced so far ^^).
All the big bugs are +3 saves now... Star cannons, Reapers, Linked shots are brutal... With your missing points you could have had 4 star cannons.... Thats a big bug a turn ;D
I actually think the Eldar's best chance of handling the new swarms of MCs (with their maximum 3+ save) is just to spam S6 shots from shuricannons, scatter lasers, and warp spiders. Maybe with some EMLs, and a well-placed Doom thrown in too. Because CWE aren't like DE, I don't think you can really afford enough long-ranged MC killing weapons (EMLs, BLs, maybe Starcannons [blegh]) to reliably handle the ludicrous number of T6 6 wound models we're seeing. Our options for heavy weapon platforms are kind of limited, Bright Lances and Starcannons are stupidly expensive, and almost all of them come at BS3. Fire Dragons can do a lot, but I think they'd be even more of a suicide unit against the nids, with the likelihood of your target MC's being surrounded by hordes of gaunts or genestealers. Spamming S6 is where it's at in a balanced list.
Yeah I had considered this. The only thing holding me back from doing it was that He had +2 to his reserve rolls (thus every turn on a 2+) While Yriel gave me +1. Still good, but still not reliable enough that I'd be willing to risk half my army showing up at the top of turn 2 only to have his whole army turn up on the bottom of turn 2 (he rolled a lot of ones so that didn't happen, but when I was considering my deployment it was a real concern. I think I could have done infinitely better if he had 1st turn instead of me, but hey nothing I could do about that. Just gotta roll with it.if you maybe had done the same by keeping your whole army in reserves it just might have given him a very bad day.
Lately with my lists I've been trying to keep everything as cheap as possible, hence the lack of seer council and vehicle upgrades. I find Starcannons to just be way too expensive, and while serpents are easily the beast place to put lances, it hasn't worked well for me in the past (Why are those brightlances twin-linked? So they can miss twice! ba-dum tsh). I was planning on relying on a storm of S6 shots (most of which was supposed to come from my ill-fated warwalkers) but my opponent made an uncanny number of armor saves. One instance had me bladestorming a doomed carnifex and inflicting 1 wound (by the number of wounds I ended up rolling, odds were on around 3) and his zoeys just wouldn't fail psychic checks! I think the groups of 2 zoeys are critical against us, since their high invulnerable save makes them less likely to suffer perils, and having 2 shoot at the same target helps you get at least 1 warp lance off. Anyway, considering that I was still very much in the game until the end of turn 6 (2 die rolls go differently, not getting snake eyes to wound a pod with meltas and rolling to end the game on turn 5, and I actually would have won 6-5), and that this was when I started the game with 150 less points, I think I should be able to do ok in the future. It's no real secret that Eldar tend to do much better when the game ends on turn 5.
I'm telling ya... star cannons... sux and they pricey but they do wonders...
I swear it, I hated them to! ... try 2 next time...