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Taking into consideration the fact that EVERYONE knows that a competitive tourney eldar list has to be mech or at the least hybrid, why is footslogging taken so little into consideration?
I firmly believe in the viability of footslogging eldar, first and foremost because people don't expect it.
When one thinks of having to face an eldar opponent he immediately starts thinking of WSerpents, Falcons and Jetbike-Councils.
You should see the looks on my opponents' faces when they see that none of the above are on the table and that they are facing something completely different!
Why don't we collect our experiences on footslogging eldar, in the far chance of putting down some sort of tactica?
I'll start off...
The main points you have to base your eldar army around when footslogging are numbers and resilience: you won't be fast and you don't have any transports, so just face it: you are going to get shot at and LOTS!
You should put in front of your opponent a fair number of targets to shoot at, most of all targets he wants and needs to shoot at: advancing wraithlords and avatar are a good example, as are fortuned/concealed wraithguard or a largish seer council. These units are tarpits and will soak up quite a lot of fire: they need to withstand punishment! These units also have to be able to deliver a decent punch to the opponent the moment they arrive, in order to break units hogging objectives or at least concretely threaten your opponent's hold on the game.
Then you need secondary targets, i.e. units that your opponent won't consider a big threat and will ignore for mot of the game until he realizes that he needs to get them off that darned objective and doesn't have enough turns to do it. Large units of defender guardians usually do the trick. Their HWeapon means they can send off pot shots here and there during the game, without having to expose themselves too much and once your opponent decides to come in and take the fight to them with a little luck they should be able to stand their own. Storm guardians have the number to cover this role too, but their lack of weapon platform means that they won't have anything to do untill the opponent arrives.
Last but not least you also need a dab of quick response: you'll need a couple of units for last turn objective grabbing or for lending that extra hand on the other side of the board where your footsoldiers won't be able to arrive before 3-4 turns. Jetbikes are great at this job and they are also scoring, otherwise warpspiders are great (and have nice heavy armor to boot) or hawks (which can double up to antitank and anti-horde).
Regarding the tactica it's fairly simple: you just march up the table with arrogance and a firm step and claim all objectives you can find! You won't have initiative in the game and will have to wrestle each objective out of your opponent's hands, but he'll have a really tough time when trying to get them back. Try and keep an eye on the whole game, but concentrate all your efforts on one thing at a time.
My two eurocents! =)
- Just love that maki! -
I haven't played my Eldar in a while, but there are certain units which do lend themselves to a footslogging setup, Harlies, Wraithlords, Wraithguard Troops, Guardian Defenders with support weapons, even war walkers, seer council etc.
As you said the problem is getting them across the table, some can do it others just fold under fire.
I'd be interested to hear some more from experienced players on how to use good footslogger units, and what kind of strategies people use for these armies.
Are they more a gun line army, or do you still need to use them in your face eldar style.
Also do you still consider normal jetbikes, shining spears, warp spiders and hawks foot sloggers, I know they don't fit that title, but despite their movement they fit in a similar catagory to the other eldar footslogging units in my mind.
What I usually do is keep a sort-of-gunline at the back, holding objectives, while the more imposing part of the army walks forward, forcing the opponent to ignore those left behind.Juetbikes and jump infantry are by definition not footsloggers, but with the new edition you need to be able to capture objectives and considering that eldar aren't tough enough to sit on them and hold them (a part from tooled up wraithguard and large defender units and even they have a hard time) you need a little smatter of mobility to give you that needed extra edge in the last turns.Also do you still consider normal jetbikes, shining spears, warp spiders and hawks foot sloggers, I know they don't fit that title, but despite their movement they fit in a similar catagory to the other eldar footslogging units in my mind.
- Just love that maki! -
Eldar are never going to have enough firepower to sit back. You can keep some Reapers camped in the back and maybe Walkers and a babysitter but you'll never be able to pull off an imperial guard fire-line. Any fire-line you do make has to be mobile because of the Shuricataputts' short range. Hell, Space marines make better static lines and they are at least twice as hard to kill. When I played Mech-less Eldar the following things were necessary:
-Avatar: Distraction and keeping you line together with fearless
-Wraithlords: Great shooting and better distraction, sometimes even got to combat
-Objective grabbing units
-As much Fortune and Conceal as you can reasonably cram into the list to maybe stay alive
-Luck. Honestly, any specialised army will do what is does better then you, and unlike Mechdar, you aren't even going to be faster then them and won't be able to run the game. I would say that although Footslogger is technically the simpler Eldar to play rule-wise, at large points it takes a much more skilled player to win.
Hope this helps.
I often play foot Eldar (and just started bringing mech). This is mostly because most of the players at my local store are mech/drop pod marines.
So no need to speed up to them, l let them come to me.
I field full DA-bladestorm squads often shielded with Defender squads. Wraithlord and/or 5man wraithgaurd-warlock-enhance (enhance! really? yes really. makes a difference, cause people want to get into CC instead of shooting). I also love Warp Spiders for that fast reaction. I use Banshees in my back lines to assault any marines/termies that get up and have assaulted another of my units. Makes them think twice about assaulting a 90pt guardian unit with his termies, knowing that my Banshees are gonna get him next turn.
And as I've said in some other threads...D-Cannons! Don't be afraid to move them up on the 1st turn, and certainly use Eldrad's divination to relocate them as well.
We are so used to fast Eldar, that few people even use or own Eldar support weapons (not to mention the absolutely absurd $cost ($33!! even absurd thinks this is absurd!).
Of course we all know how effective pathfinders can be sitting on an objective in cover. I will often combine my pathfinders and D-Cannons to cover an objective (oh, pretty Land Raider...please won't you come within 24"...pleeeaase...)
I generally do a 'V' formation.
With objective grabbing units of DA, pathfinders, Guardians on the out side (often putting Dark Reapers here as well). Then in the rear/center my reactionary units, Banshees/Warp Spiders. And with them my Support Weapons/Fire Prisms.
This gives 2 upfront formations for my opponent to decide between. The guardians are there mostly to shield the other units. Will sometimes put Dark Reapers here as well.
Then the rear center reaction units can move to support either side where/when needed while the heavy weapons can cover both objectives. Warp Spiders are great at taking down a drop pod Dreadnought (rear armor of course). Certainly farseer(s) will be placed where I need them. This depends a lot on my opponent and how he/she sets up. But will generally be a guide/fortune seer.
I think of this like a scorpion. The pincers up front (which can of course swing in to flank anyone that charges up the middle) and the big stinger in the center.
Though it's not entirely foot slogging, I often use a Fire Prism in the rear/center with the D-Cannons and a guideseer.
Last edited by JMichael; February 2nd, 2010 at 18:26.
I was musing on support weapon batteries, but aren't D-Cannons a bit risky? They have kickass statlines, but need LOS and with 2 meager guardians there to handle them, a decent round of bolter fire will render a battery of 3 quite useless...
On the contrary, I was thinking that the Vibrocannon would be a good choice, without the need of LOS to shoot...
- Just love that maki! -
None of the heavy weapons platforms are very effective except under extremely rare circumstances. Remember, they are incredibly short range. Compared to Guardians, they certainly are artillery, but they don't really measure up to Fire Prisms, Wraithlords, Dark Reapers, or even War Walkers (other heavy support choices).
Further, the D-Cannon doesn't need LOS either.
Last edited by rafis117; February 3rd, 2010 at 11:20.
Terminator armor going critical would be like Three Mile Island only very, VERY angry, and carrying a hammer.
LO rules in a nutshell: Don't post unit costs, be polite, rep posts containing of win.
There's a whole other thread on the use of D-Cannons, so I won't digress too much here. But guiding them is great and I also love vibrocannons (no LOS, can choose target AFTER you roll to hit, auto glance vehicles, and can go into CC if you really need to).
I agree that war walkers are another great choice instead.
Heres the 2000pt list that I've used to footslog:
Farseer, jetbike, guide, fortune, stones 155
10 Guardians, Brightlance, 110
10 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Bladestorm 147
Wave Serpent, Twin-linked Scatter Lasers, 115
10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Enhance/Conceal, Singing Spear 402
Wraithlord, Shruiken cannon, Brightlance 140
Wraithlord, Wraithsword, Starcannon 130
10 Howling Banshees, Exarch, War Shout, Acrobatics 182
Wave Serpent, Twin-linked Scatter Lasers, Star Engines 130
7 Harlequins, Shadowseer, 7 Harlequin Kisses 194
And something for 140pts, usually AT (warwalkers or falcon)
Technically its a hybrid list but I sometimes lose the wave serpents for guardian squads. The wave serpent dudes go up flanks and/or pick off vulnerable units. Everything else moves up the middle like an ork army would going: try and kill me you losers. The Farseer turboboosts EVERY turn and casts fortune on the most targeted unit.
In some ways footslogging lists can stand up to mech as you get a lot more models for your points. But the vital thing whilst footslogging is to remember to be killy. Try and complete the game objectives turn 4 and 5 but till turn 3 and sometimes longer just run (or if you're more gunliney shoot) at the enmy and then charge going WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH all the way along.
Avatar is essential, once my friend and i played 2000pts against a mate with necrons, he lost about 500pts and we all died, we asked if we could bring the avatar on and he said sure, why not. The avatar then proceeded to kill 600pts of his 1500, before dying, and that was without fortune.
Wraithguard are good, troop choices hurray. However they are big point sink and watch out for S7+ Ap3 (always give warlock conceal).
Wraithlord, I can shoot you and then when i get close still beat you in combat, especially with my buddy the Avatar and another wraithlord to help.
Guardians are cheap and easy. No more explanation.
Dire avengers, guardians with longer range and better BS in footslogging.
Harlies, shadowseer. You can't shoot me until I'm an avergage of 14" away and I've got fleet
Dark reapers and warwalkers are good in more shooty lists.
Cool stuff guys. I'd like to play a footy Eldar list for once.
Also, wouldn't Warwalkers be a good choice for a footslogging list as a good source of covering fire?
Hello 6 guided scatter lasers.
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