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Can the Hammerhead's Smart Missile system fire separately?
Also, are the SMSs defensive weapons?
The Greater Good
1: Yes, if you have a Target Lock, otherwise no.
"The sergeant major asked me what my job is. I told him it's to do what I am told. He gave me a medal. I like the Imperial Guard."
"Innocentia Probat Nihil"
the sms is 1 weapon it states it in the armoury somewhere so that nullifies your last two questions sorry
Despite appearances vehicles carry ONE sms. Yes I know there are two missile bays on the front, if it helps you can imagine two missiles coming from each bay. In the same way an XV88 has one missile bay in each hand, yet only has ONE sms.
I don't care what you say. I found a lightsaber in my garage and that makes me a Jedi
As was said earlier it is one complete system. However, you need to look at the bonus to the way they set this up. With the system sitting at the end of each wingtip, it increases the effective range it can threaten. It's 4" from 1 to the other and you only need to measure from 1 for the whole weapon to reach your target.
Defensive weapons are characterized as being weapon strength 4 or less. As all our weapons are strength 5 or above, it doesn't help us at all. One of the things we lost in 5th edition.
- Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
If you take a multi-tracker and SMS on a devilfish and only moved 6", would you be able to fire both the Burst cannon and the SMS totaling 7 shots? Was just wandering as that would be a pretty good way of replacing all the lost S5 you lose from having your firewarriors constantly inside the devilfish.
On the Devilfish the best outfit is Drones and a multi. This means you can move the full 12" and fire all the weapons on the Devilfish, so you get 5 shots no matter how far you move. With the SMS and the multi if you move over 6" you can only fire one weapon (so maximum 4 shots).
I also like the fact that you can pin with the Drones, OK it may not be a certainty but the fact is it is useful when it does work. The other benefit to Drones is they can add another level of defense to an objective, move a scoring unit of FW's in a Devilfish within 2" of an objective, drop of the Drones and move them into the cover and you have given the opponent three units to remove before they can take the objective. I have also dropped drones and contested two objectives (the DF/FW's and the Drones).
Kill points are often touted as a downside to Drones but I have never lost a game due to losing a Drone unit.
SMS offers three advantages:
(1) Extra two shots if you move less than 6"
(2) No line of sight needed and ignores cover saves granted by other units or non terrain granted cover
(3) Six inches extra range over Drones
Sounds great but the fact is you get 7 shots only if you limit your movement. The Burst cannon has an 18" range which means to get the full seven shots you need to be within 18, which negates the extra 6" range advantage (if you want the seven shots.
If you think about it to get seven shots you are actually restricting the effective weapons range of the DF, 6" max movement plus 18" range means a maximum weapons range of 24". The Drone and BC/mulit equipped DF can move 12" and fire all its weapons out to 18" which means an effective range of 30" with ALL its shots.
If you want to hit with all seven shots the target needs to be in LOS, which again negates another advantage
The cover negation sounds good but the only time it applies is if you shoot a target through another unit. If a target is in cover (physically in terrain that provides cover saves) or is touching cover (say behind a wall and touching it with its base) then it gains a cover save.
So to get the full seven shot advantage you have to:
(a) Restrict your movement to less than 6"
(b) Have unrestricted line of sight
(c) Hit a target out of cover because the burst cannon shots will give cover saves from intervening units
(d) Pay 20 points extra
To get the best out of a Devilfish with Drones you need to:
(a) Move as far as you want to with no restrictions (better than the SMS)
(b) Have unrestricted line of sight (same as the SMS)
(c) Hit a target out of cover, remembering the target unit will get cover saves from intervening units
(d) pay nothing extra
Taking just two SMS on Devilfish will cost you 40pts and for what? The rare time you get a target within 24" that is out of LOS but not in cover (or touching it) and the ability to put out seven shots, that 40pts could be used in better places, for instance it equates to four lots of flechettes for four vehicles or three extra Pathfinders etc.
SMS is overated and expensive on the Devilfish.
Last edited by Rikimaru; February 13th, 2010 at 12:50.
The SMS is a fine upgrade for any eligible vehicle, bet it a Devilfish, Hammerhead, or Skyray.Originally Posted by rikimaru
riki talks the good talk about "not listening to so-called experts and deciding for yourself", but when he gives advice it's always couched as cold hard "facts" that cannot be denied.
The real "fact" about the SMS is that it is expensive but does clearly have uses. I have begun using it all the time on my devilfish and as often as I can afford it on my hammerheads, both with and without the multi-tracker upgrade to go along with it. You can get good use out of the SMS either way.
And the real "facts" are:
The weapon makes your vehicles -- but most especially your devilfish -- significantly deadlier gunboats on the field than simple drones (or burst cannons in the case of the heavy support choices) allow. The weapon has a 6" superior range to either drones or burst cannons AND doesn't require line of sight AND denies cover to most units that it targets. The utility of all three of these "facts" about the SMS should be obvious.
The superior range is my personal favorite feature. That extra 6" cushion is a true blessing for an army that crumples like wet tissue paper if any enemy gets too close. It allows your devilfish -- or hammerheads if you have a multi-tracker or if the railgun turret has been blasted off -- to operate entirely out of enemy double-dice melta range. If you want to shoot with burst cannons and/or drones instead ... tough luck. The enemy will be able to get those double-dice for penetration rolls if he wants to. And you can bet he'll want to.
But using the SMS instead of drones changes the way you do -- and should -- use your devilfish. And there is definitely a trade-off to be made by paying for the SMS when gun drones are perfectly serviceable and come for free. And gun drones themselves bring their own benefits to the table that should be seriously considered.
Long story short: I like the SMS and can wholeheartedly recommend its use. It will bring added value to any Tau army list. But by no means are SMSs mandatory upgrades. Try 'em and see what you think. If you don't like 'em, go back to drones and don't worry about it.
Last edited by number6; February 14th, 2010 at 01:20.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
No LOS, well the only thing I can say to this is wow, how many times in a game do you get to target something that is totally out of LOS? not often, certainly not often enough to justify 20 pts per vehicle extra. If you are swamped by units out of LOS then you need to reassess the boards you are using.
If Melta's are going to be a factor it is not because the Tau player has 6" less range than an SMS, Melta's are usually delivered on fast vehicles or in units that get close quickly by other means which makes the 6" totally and utterly meaningless.
If any player is stupid enough to move a Devilfish within double dice range then they deserve to lose it anyway, Melta's are not a problem because we move closer to them, they are a problem because most players deliver them close, fast and the SMS's range is not a factor in that and you know it.
The biggest point though is one of the main reasons the SMS is put forward is it can deliver 7 shots but you are admitting here that those seven shots are only available in certain restricted circumstances because from the way you describe it your DF and HH's are usually at 24" which renders the BC useless (so much for 7 shots).
If you are playing as you should, I/E your forces castled, blockaded with the Hammerheads at maximum range and protected by your forces. Forces that should be arrayed to prevent DS etc (with those nasty melta's) then you should not be using the SMS for the first 3 turns at least. If you have two Devilfish with Fire Warriors then you should be keeping them as safe as humanly possible. This means not pushing them forward and again keeping them back out of range or even in reserve. In ohter words played the way you put forward constantly number6.
So we have four vehicles with weaponry that when played as they should be, should not be shooting anything for at least 2 turns minimum (best practice is 3/4 turns). Excellent so we have paid 80pts for weaponry we should not be aiming to use for a large proportion of the game, yep that makes sense. Hey I have an idea, why not use the 80pts on weapons or units that we can use 'all the game' like an extra XV88 or a Piranha or an extra Fireknife Bodyguard. Or lets spend it on things to make the army better in all the game turns rather than in just half of the turns IF the enemy gets close enough.
Now who is it who keeps saying "Guns guns guns, more shots more shots is best, even if it is BS3"? So you espouse taking more guns yet you spend 80pts on guns that should not be shooting for most of the game if played as Tau should be played, mmm inconsistent.
So lets just spend 80pts (nearly 1/20th of our points in 2000pts) on weaponry that may 'just may' get a shot maybe one out of six games at a unit that it totally out of LOS. Now I would rather use the 80pts on something that can shoot all the targets that are IN LOS for the vast majority of all the turns in all the games we play.
So we have those HH's in the backfield and someone drops a unit of Marines with a Melta right next to one of them, yep that SMS 24" range makes all the difference there doesn't it. Nope what it really means is I lost 185pts of vehicle instead of 165pts and in my turn I can shoot the Marine squad that is 12" away from my other vehicles with my 24" range SMS (oh but I can also shoot them with my 18" range Burst cannon and Drones).
So we get to later in the game and we need to take or hold objectives, I know lets detach the SMS so the attacking unit has to kill them to stop the objective being contested, oh i forgot you can't detach SMS only Drones can do that. So I have my objective and I am being attacked by an enemy unit trying to take the objective. My DF with SMS can shoot the unit (but so can the DF with Drones), the unit can shoot and assault the DF and if it is destroyed the FW's are next.
The DF with Drones can drop the Drones in front of the DF, which means that the attacking unit has to get past them to get to the Devilfish. This means the either shoot the Drones (DF not being shot) or they assault the Drones (DF not being assaulted). Then the units has to destroy the DF and then the FW's.
Can the SMS protect the DF? No
Can the SMS contest objectives? No
Can the SMS assault a unit and hold it up? No
Can the SMS shoot then assault the unit? No
Can the SMS provide cover for the FW squad?
Can the SMS provide an assault screen for the FW's if the DF is destroyed? No
Can SMS provide a screen for the vehicle against the Melta unit that its shooting did not kill? No
Can the SMS assault the unit attacking the vehicle that it shooting did not wipe out? No
Do the Drones cost 20pts? No they do not
Do the Drones provide STR5 pinning shots irrespective of distance moved? Yes they do
Can the Drones provide a barrier to said Melta units moving to destroy the DF? Yes they can
Can the Drones shoot and then assault the attacking unit? Yes it can
Can the Drones contest the objective? Yes they can
Is LOS important when a unit is close enough to contest an objective? No
On the whole are objectives more important than drawing LOS to a hidden unit mabe once every three games? Well yee they are more important
By the way Six old bean when has providing 'cold hard facts' ever been at odds with 'making up ones own mind'?. I do indeed make the point that I only use facts and I make no apology for it fella. I do so because facts tend to be useful when making ones 'own' mind up about something, I find it tends to be less than satisfactory making decisions on anything based on hearsay, rumour, hype and misinformation, facts tend to do the job better.
What I have written above can be taken in any way a reader see's fit, I have presented the facts and it is up to the reader to decide how to use them. I am not putting my way up as 'the' way, only 'a' way.
Last edited by Rikimaru; February 14th, 2010 at 02:55.