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I have a few questions about some tactics for using some tyranid units i never use. What are their strengths and weaknesses?
3. Old One Eye
4. Ymeargl Genestealers (seem too expensive to me, are they worth it??)
7. VENOMTHROPES!!! they seem VERY useless to me....
I know thats a lot of units ive never used effectively, but thats because my army is based on winged creatures and drop pods. haha any information would be very helpful, as im looking to change my army lists! Thanks guys!!
Last edited by bulldog24; February 19th, 2010 at 21:40.
Hive Fleet Reaver (W/L/D) 23/4/2
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i cant answer everything effectively because i haven't used all of them yet myself but this is what i do know.
Biovores- these are a hit and miss unit. one is never enough if you use them. what is nice about them is that you can force your opponent to take alternative routes up the board with well placed spores because most people wont bother shooting through them other then that iv never found them very useful.
Mawlocs- for competitive play I dont think they are worth it. its very random with the terror from the deep rule but alot of fun to play with in friendly games.
Old one Eye- Can't comment haven't used him yet. at first glance he seems really slow but capable of alot a destruction, hes a tough guy to beat and paired with some venomthropes hes guaranteed to make it up the board alive and with potentially 16 attacks on the charge he can do some serious damage.
Ymgarl- its a tough call iv only used them once before. the problem is that they take up a very valuable elite slot. the shape shifting thing is great i think it makes them a very effective unit in alot of situations. Deep-striking in terrain is very nice as well and can cause alot of problems for your opponent.
Raveners- again its a win lose situation they get chewed up pretty easily but if left alone can cause alot of mayhem. Really balanced unit though. not over powered but as a unit are pretty independent. I'm going to play a few more games with proxys before I drop the money on these guys I want to see how they fair with different roles.
Pyrovores- haven't used them and probably won't. mainly because i'm not a fan of flame templates. I can see them doing really well dropped from a pod but they don't offer enough for me to really consider using them. especially when i can take things like Zoanthropes, DOM, Hive guard, Lictors, Deathleaper and everything else in between instead of a pyrovore. Maybe over kill with them like three units of three pyrovores in three spores could fun but aside from that i wouldnt think so.
Hope this helps you
I've wondered myself what it would be like to field a bunch of Biovores and fill up my FA slots with Spore Mines. It would probably be a right royal pain in the arse against shooty armies like Guard and Tau, having a couple dozen Spore Mines floating around behind the front lines...
I've used the Mawloc and I'm not that much of a fan. Takes two turns to set up his attack, it's sparodic on the accuracy side of things and he's not a Synapse creature. Plus you're likely to run into disagreements over the 'intentionally DSing on enemies' issue...
Still, if you manage to get under a large group of tough infantry like Terminators he'll earn his points back.
His tactics are pretty straight forward.
Start him on the table and burrow first turn,
Turn 2, try to pop up under the largest concentration of heavy infantry you can find,
Rinse and repeat.
OOE get's an extra 16% chance of regaining a lost wound over a standard Fex with regen, but still only has 4 to start with and is likely to draw every heavy weapon on the field and die in a single turn anyway...and all for only 75 extra points!
He can't take a Spore either, so you'll want to take a Venomthrope or two to cover him on the march forward. I still don't like his chances though, with only a 5+ cover save and 3+ armour...
Plus he has no ranged attack, which is quite a drawback on an MC as they get 2 shots a shooting phase.
Personally, just take a standard Fex and spend the extra 100 where you want.
4 and 5 I wont comment on. Dont use them and dont expect to either.
and the Pyrovore. He seems to need to get too close and is just not built to survive it. 2 Wounds, 4+ Save, 1 Attack...
Template will reach...it's about 8 inches isn't it?
And he doesn't even explode consistently (50% only if he's IDed) (and even then it's a pretty weak hit that a Spore Mine would laugh at)
My suggestion on his tactics...swap him for a Hive Guard or use him as a Biovore proxy (he does look cooler)
This guy's great for taking out large swathes of any infantry unit with an armour save of 4+ or worse (Guard, Tau, Eldar, Orks), plus, most've them you'll be wounding on a 3+ too. Even if you miss it isn't exactly worthless either, since the Spore Mines you produce are, while not game-breaking, an annoyance that your opponent will either have to avoid or spend a unit's shooting to destroy. As for weaknesses, they aren't very tough, and won't stand up to concentrated fire or even any unit that's moderately capable in an assault. They'll also need Synapse in order to function how you want to function, lest they run for the nearest cover and have no LOS to anything.
Ah the Mawloc, I find he's overlooked because of the Trygon hogging the spotlight. His main strengths lie in his Terror From The Deep rule, which, to use the vernacular, will mess stuff up funtime. Seriously, Strength 6 AP 2 hits will wipe out most of a Terminator squad, and this is how the Mawloc can easily make his points back. His weaknesses are the same as other MCs in our army, we haven't got any invulnerable saves, and because the Mawloc is a large little bugger, he won't be claiming any cover saves either, unless you use another Mawloc as cover...anyway, don't expect him to hang around if your opponent has loaded up on plasma guns and the like.
3. Old One Eye
I'd just be repeating other people's opinions on this guy. However, the Berserk Rampage could be quite good as long as you hit the first time, and Alpha Leader might come in handy as some faux Synapse in a pinch. For his points, however, you could get a Trygon Prime! A Synapse Creature who could lead other little critters through his burrowed hole, ready to feast on the enemies of the Hive Mind...but then I guess you wouldn't be getting him for that. Ultimately it comes down to personal choice, however if it was up to me I'd probably go for a cheaper Fex with twin-linked Brainleech worms. Pretty much as effective in CC, with some decent shooting power as well, and a helluva lot cheaper. Your choice though, of course.
4. Ymgarl Genestealers (seem too expensive to me, are they worth it??)
Yes they are expensive, but you only need about 5-8 in order to make them a really funkypants unit. You need to know what kind of terrain you'll be fighting in, of course, otherwise you can't use Dormant, in which case normal 'Stealers would be the go. Alter Form is nice for a little tailoring to suit your needs in any situation, but really is just icing on the kill-cake. For slightly less than the price of a single Ymgarl, you could get a normal Genestealer with toxin sacs, adrenal glands and scything talons, making him almost as effective in CC as the Ymgarl. Plus, you can take a Broodlord in a normal Genestealer unit, whereas you can't for Ymgarls. Dormant is slightly more useful than Infiltrate or Outflank, considering you can be right where you want to be and your opponent won't know diddly-poop about where your Ymgarls are hiding, so he'll have to be careful about where he puts his units. I've had the idea of putting them within an objective, then when my opponent's troops come to claim it, the Ymgarls pop out and chow down.
Haven't really played with these yet, though I reckon the Trygon plus these guys is an obvious pairing. Their ability to take thorax-mounted weaponry is quite nice, giving them a little more ranged power. I really really really wish these guys were Synapse Creatures though, I thought they might be because they look like Warriors, but sadly, nay. When I'm not sure about a unit, I compare it to other options available within the same FOC slot. So, instead of Raveners you could get: Tyranid Shrikes (Synapse, yay!), Sky-slasher Brood (Er, flying Rippers? Interesting...), Gargoyles (flying termies, fairly good for granting a Tyrant a cover save), a Harpy, which I'm not really sure about, aaaaaand Spore Mine Clusters! Woo! From this selection Raveners stand out as having some really good CC clout, which may be just what you need.
6. and last but not least Pyrovores
Ah, the Pyrovore, the Biovore's weird cousin who smells a bit like cheese and eats grass during sports day. He really needs a 3+ save, failing that, more toughness, a larger brood size, or not to be put into the "Elites" section. Now he's competing with Hive Guard, Zoanthropes and Lictors! Nothing can compete with those! That being said, Acid Maw is quite nice, ignoring armour saves and all that, but it'd be better if he had more'n one damn attack. I'd recommend this guy if you like him, but otherwise, go the Hive Guard. Those guys are freakin' crazy.
I hope this helps!
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1. Biovore - Clearly an anti-troop weapon, having the greatest impact against 'swarm' forces such as IG and Orks. However, it's quite useful against the eldar/dark eldar, since their forces tend to be much smaller and specialized.
2. Mawloc - Sadly overlooked due to the Trygon, I find it's 'burrow' rule quite useful. Against troop spam, a Mawloc can be quite devastating. Being able pop up about twice in a normal game, it's ability to 'burrow' can be used to deny your opponent kill points.
3. Old One Eye - You could create a similar carnifex, minus this characters special rules, for cheaper. However, if it manages to get across the field in somewhat 'one piece', since you can't buy it a mycetic spore, it's incredibly devastating in CC. It really comes down to if you like fielding special characters, but I don't.
4. Ymgarl Genestealers - They are built to survive, but I rather have normal genestealers with toxic sacs.
5. Raveners - A personal favorite, I like to combined them with a Trygon Prime and a Mawloc, and attack one flank. Yes, they don't end up in the same spot nor together, but having 3 DS broods in the same area leaves your opponent choosing which is the biggest threat. Surrounding his/her nastiest CC units, the rest of my force can freely shoot/rip apart the rest of the opposing force without much fear of retaliation.
6. Pyrovores - Basically walking heavy flamers. Ideal against opponents who like hiding nasty units in cover, such as Eldar Rangers and SM Scouts with sniper rifles. Give the brood a mycetic spore, and DS it right next too (or close as possible) to such units. Feel free to aim the brood at other tempting targets, such as a large unit of troops or a devastator squad. Anything you can take out with a heavy flamer, you can take out with a pyrovore ... and it's rather good in CC and then it explodes ... hehe
7. Venomthropes - Having at least two, makes a good enough screen for your CC broods. Their given cover saves and the ability to slow down assault units are good, but ibelieve you need a brood of two or three to have staying power. With an exspensive brood, I'd take them if your list is CC dedicated.
Hope I helped.
The biovore is cool, where a missed shot is rarely* wasted.
*only when you scatter off exactly 6" so the marker hits nothing but is in exploding range.
Remember that it's barrage as well, meaning no LOS required. + pinning as a bonus.
(cover is counted from the markers hole anyway, so.)
Spore clusters on their own are awesome against any army that has infantry outside of transports..
Mawloc.. Looks awesome, then promply goes splat.
Psych warfare if nothing else.. spore mines and ymgarls do that better though.
Old one eye.. haven't used him.. only str 10 monster in the codex.. 5+ regen etc...
Raveners.. haven't looked into them, I'm unimpressed by the lack of upgrades. Cool models though.
The overpriced box doesn't impress me when a trygon kit is just a couple of bucks more.
Pyrovore.. I'f i ever do planetstrike or cities of death, these would be handy for roasting stuff in bunkers etc.
Venomthropes.. Soo promising, yet so weak... always a high priority target for the enemy.
Last edited by arachnid; February 23rd, 2010 at 16:00.
These guys were the star of the show the two times I used them, then I stopped when I realized they are generally not worth it. Against foot slogging armies they are simply amazing. Nothing will stop a wave of Orks like S4AP4 barrage pie plates that can't really miss. Same for IG weapons teams.
However, you will mostly be facing mech, and they are just plain useless against that. Know your playgroup, adapt to their lists, but in an all comers list, they wouldn't make the cut for me. Gotta love 45 points a shot though, in a different world, they'd be amazing.
A spectacular disruption unit, and truly one of the best models in the game. The idea is to scare the opponent to death with this guy. Start him on the field, burrow, then blast out of the ground on turn 2, right in the read guard. The pie plate itself might not kill much but the fear of the pie plate might be worth the points, making your opponent spread out his forces. He's a real psychological weapon.
On the other hand, there is a good chance he'll scatter into nothing interesting, pop out, soak a few shots, burrow, then repeat the same failure the next turn. In a world where units need to be reliable, I would rather pay 30 extra points for a Trygon, which I feel is a much more balanced unit.
3. Old One Eye
The only unit I will not run again are Carnifexes. They are too expensive, and anything they can do, a Tyrant or Trygon can do better. In 2000+ points, I would run shooty Fexes. I would never run a melee fex instead of a Trygon. I try not to be too black or white in my assessments in general, but you pay 40 extra points for a trygon, which has built in drop pod deep strike, 2 extra attacks, fleet, a decent gun, 3 extra ini, 2 extra weapon skill, 2 extra wounds...
Which brings me to Old One Eye. A more expensive Carnifex. Basically it has all the weaknesses of a Carnifex without any advantages that make up for those weaknesses. It doesn't get extra ini, extra WS, extra wounds, an invuln save, deployment options... It can't even reroll its misses on 2s and 3s since it only has one set of ST! I wish I could love fexes again, I really do, because I like the model so much. But everything they used to do well can pretty much be done better by other units. OOE is no different.
4. Ymeargl Genestealers
Ymgarls are incredible, if you run them in the right army. You need bonuses to reserve rolls in order to get them at the right moment. If you do, they can and will annihilate anything you point them at, then die a horrible, horrible death. Which is what they do best. Since you get to choose where they lie dormant AFTER deployment, you can really, really mess up someone's day with those. With a possible 5 str plus rending, they will likely cause enough damage to incapacite most vehicles short of a land raider or Monolith. They will destroy any IC unlucky enough to not be in a transport. They will tear apart any heavy weapons team. They will ruin rangers' and scouts' days.
Without a boost to reserve rolls, the enemy will move away, they will pop out nowhere near anything, and they will die to a turn of shooting.
5+ saves are why they are hard to justify. You will lose a lot of them to a round of fire from a regular SM unit, which makes them really hard to deep strike properly. Too far, they will be useless for a turn, and may die. Too close, they will die. I am planning on playtesting them some more, but slogging it out on the field, behind an MC of some sort - a Tervi most likely. Then try to capitalize on their huge assault range.
I wouldn't give them ranged weapons, although I would give them Rending Claws. Try to keep the cost down, and run about 5 of them, maybe... The point made by others stand though - wouldn't you be better off with similarly costed warriors? Or just a baying of hormagaunts? Or Shrikes?
Aaaah if they only had 4+ saves...
I wouldn't run them. Nids have a dozen ways to get rid of massed infantry, and this isn't a very good one. They compete for one of our best FOC slots. They have 1 attack on their profile, and they're not very tough. Just.... hard to justify running these guys instead of zoanthropes, that fill a very, very important role on the battlefield.
7. VENOMTHROPES!!! they seem VERY useless to me....
They have their place in the right kind of army. I would probably run a few if I tried a footslogging "giant mass of nids coming towards you" army, to give cover to trygons and tyrants. They have decent special rules, they are just really fragile so they need to be out of LoS as much as possible.
However I have a feeling that the footslogging nid army isn't going to be very popular, as our alternative deployment options kick a huge amount of ass.
Otherwise they still suffer from the Pyrovore syndrome, being an elite choice competing with Lictors, Hive Guards, and Zoanthropes...
Last edited by HiveFleetDarkmoon; February 23rd, 2010 at 16:44.
Ymeargl Genestealers are great in my thinking. Specially since they can move, run and assault on the turn they come out. Which means you can potentially cover a lot of ground to do some real damage as soon as you place them. The game I used them in I took out a whirlwind with'em the first turn they deep struck, after having to move, run, etc. The turn after that they took out a full squad of marines. So I believe their cost is worthwhile and the mutating gives them more versitility than one might first realize. (the +1 str made is quite easy to destroy a tank for instance)
The Mawloc is -very- hit and miss in my opinion as I don't think you can deepstrike it directly on top of other models. But depending on how your opponenets deploys you might not -need- a lot of luck. When I used mine my oppoenents had formed a nice half circle of units for me to DS into, I had probally about a 50% to hit SOMETHING and it did. We determined it destroyed the LR by the letter of the rules of the ability (couldn't move it the shortest distance out from under the template). If nothing else I bet your opponents start deploying more strategically after losing a few units to the Mawloc!
The Venomthrope I haven't actually used but I like the fact it always wounds on 2+ thanks to poison and the cover save they grant nearby units just begs to be tried at least once. Going back to the poison, since I tend to play marines most commonly that means I get to reroll any wounds as well. So it's nice to basically have those "automatic" wounds against marines. Course the tough part is getting them into CC to do that and as others point out. They are fragile.
the mawloc is definately a physc out the enemy unit, for me, we play RAI, and it has scattered once in about 8 tries, and the time it scattered it scattere right into his crisis suits, LOL
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