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I have played several games against an opponent who runs a White Scars bike army. In a 2000pt list he fielded three bke squads, with twin-linked bolters and multi-meltas, a crusader landraider with eight assault terminators with storm shields, a drop pod dreadnaught. I gave him a good fight, but he crushed me.
Hive Tyrant - Venom cannon, armored shell, regen, twin-linked devourer
3x Hive Guard
Tyrannofex with rupture cannon
20x Genestealers with broodlord - toxin sacs
30x Termigaunts - toxin sacs
24x Hormagaunts - toxin sacs
5x Tyranid warriors - devourers, bone swords
Basically he outflanked everything. His dreadnaught landed in a drop pod and toasted a bunch of hormagaunts before getting blonw to pieces on my turn.
Most of his bikes and his landraider came in on the next turn. He was able to get his Terminators in close combat with my Tyrannofex first turn and killed it. His bikes wiped out the rest of the Hormagaunts and shot down the Hive Tyrant. On my turn the Genestealers showed up behind his bikes and killed them all. Then on his turn his last squad of bikes came in and killed off the Genestealers. I got super unlucky with my Zoanthrope and was not able to destroy his Landraider. The warriors were charged by the Terminators and again, I got too many unlucky rolls.
Basically, I was not able to take out his Landraider or his Terminators. They were responsible to a ton of damage. The bikes are so fast that I have trouble getting my units in close combat with him and all the twin-linked bolter fire cuts down my guys.
If anyone has had good success against Marine bike armies let me know.
How did he get his Terminators into CC in the first turn?!
+++XENOS SPOTTED+++ thrilling battles within the Vitorina subsector: http://xenosspotted.blogspot.com/
Anyway, about your real problem I am actually not sure how we're supposed to handle storm shield toting terminators. I'm thinking the best way to deal with them is massed shooting, we can't really handle them that well in CC. Perhaps a big unit of genestealers supported by the swarmlord is a good counter, but to pull that off you need some good luck with the rest of the enemy army, and you really need to pop the raider before it hits you. Massed shooting or maybe massed poisoned attacks from hormagaunts or gargoyles could work, but we don't have any obvious counter.
"I have seen you humans, trying to forge an Empire in the name of a corpse"
Tyranids: Hive Fleet Kohr-Ah
Ok, i see your problem.. Lets see if you can use other things?
How about dropping Doom? Sure the terminators still has a great save if they have storm shields but still it increases the odds!
And should work awesome vs bikes!
Ever tried Parasite of the Mortrex? I think you should read some about him!
When he is on the board, every unit outflanking (even those in transports) Must pass a toughness test on one model /per squad.
If failed, let the magic begin! (lol I don't want to post to much info, just read about him and i think he might help you out with out flankers, well some anyway)..
Gargoyles are cheap!
Maybe Feel no Pain on gargoyles, lock them up with the bikes. 6´s autowound to hit?
maybe combine with a swarmlord, and then you choose your gargoyles to get the prefered enemy rule.
Then you have reroll to hit = more 6´s wound plus you have your wounding to do aswell.
Or just skip the swarmlord and tervigon.
Toxin sacs 4+ wound T5 bikes? Some just has to die...
And try to remember your last battles, how did you deploy, what did he do?
What if you did this instead, how do you think he would react?
Try to keep 1-2 turn ahead in your mind. And remember the deployment, not to close "so the dread flames you (or blasts)"
Hope i was of some help.
Last edited by Padea; March 1st, 2010 at 15:31.
Went against a bike army once, used the Swarmlord + Tyrant Guard with Boneswords, unit was massacred! With the Swarmlord and Guard ignoring armor saves and with instant death flying around the bikes had little chance! (course that was with Orks armed with Power Claws, not sure how Marines work)
For Assault Terminators, lots of Genestealers. Its the Tyranid solution to everything.
If the Land Raider has to drop of the Terminators it should be in range of a Carnifex Assault.
And of course you can always go with the swarming, take loads and loads of Hormagaunts/Gargoyles/Dev-Termagaunts
I think your biggest problem is your army list.
There is no redundancy. Every unit is its own thing, without backup or synergy with any other unit in the list, and the loss of any unit costs the list a singularly unique capability.
Keep these things in mind as you look to defeat your White Scars opponent. Your opponent is fast and likes to outflank -- so you need to defend against that -- and he has a hammer in the form of the land raider/terminators -- so you need to defend against that, too.
The way you defend against fast armies -- whether they outflank or not -- is to make sure you have speedbumps in their way. Your current list has no expendable speedbump units. Cheap, non-upgraded 10-model termagants backed up by tervigons are the best way to get that capability. It also gives you additional MCs to help absorb all the anti-tank firepower that is right now eating up your zoanthropes and hive guard. (One lone, un-Guarded Tyrant isn't near enough.)
Speaking of which: your hive guard and zoanthropes are probably very ineffective aren't they? The reason is because all of your opponent's firepower can be targeted into them because they have no reason to shoot at anything else. Zoanthropes in particular are very short-ranged and easily torrented down before they can even get shots off. To make them work you need to present far more shooting threats than you currently are -- or you have to put them in spores and deep strike them into position so they can slag a big target before being torrented down.
In general, you need several MCs to dilute enemy firepower, and you need screening units to protect your vital assets. And if you're going to shoot, take enough to matter.
And the way you defend against big hammer units is to do one or more of the following.
* Torrent it down with massive amounts of firepower. Just make it take a lot of armour saves, eventually it will die.
* Keep feeding it expendable units so it doesn't do anything useful for the entire game.
* Sic a tarpit unit on it to hold it in place until your heavy hitters get into position to assault it. (As with shooting, the goal is to just make the enemy unit make a lot of armour saves. The more saves they're forced to roll, the more failures they're going to have.)
Last edited by number6; March 1st, 2010 at 17:27.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
Mmmm 20 genestealers! nom nom nom!
I have to agree with 6, I love the idea of 20 stealers but in this list its a little unfocused. You have the flankers, but you dont have your hammer.
I'm am still suprised however that a bike list did that well vs so many stealers...
Ahh wait you have them in one squad... Easy advice from me then! Split it into 2 groups of 10.... 20 is overkill for one squad.
Last edited by BooGs; March 1st, 2010 at 19:38.
Block the table edges with hormagants and termagants!!! If he cannot enter, cannot kill you!
BEST ARMY APPEARANCE AND OVERALL WINNER OF A LOCAL GW RTT (29-7-06) GODZILLA/CHOIR 2K ARMY LIST