Welcome to Librarium Online!
Hello again Servants of the Star Gods! (Wow I mistyped half of that..must be getting rusty)
This week we're taking a step back to cover a previously uncovered unit. Something I had apparently forgotten, along with Immortals, so now it's time to get it taken care of.
Despite the slow tread of their infantry, and the looming condemnation of their tanks, the Necrons have found a frighteningly efficient way of applying their heavy weaponry. Akin to the Eldar grav weaponry, the Ancients have taken a step further, fusing weapon, soldier and transport into one brutally efficient revenant. Hurtling through the sky on hover chassis, nearly unslayable by means of small arms, or even some heavy anti-infantry weapons. To make this all the more terrifying, the weaponry mounted on these Destroyers has been known to fell even the heaviest of Imperial Warmachines in the field, and vaporizing the finest and hardiest soldiers offered up by the Imperium. These terrors are none by a simple name, one derived from their effect upon the force of any mortals that cross their path; Destroyers. Among the destroyers are two variants, the original Destroyer, which left fields of mortals and support vehicles to dust, and the later revealed Heavy Destroyers, whose focused blasts shattered the armor of bunkers and heavy tanks alike.
So Necrons how have you fielded Heavy Destroyers? What success have you had with them in game? What uses do you find them most suited for?
This thread is about HEAVY Destroyers, and their tactical application, not a rant about how standard destroyers are better. If you want to gush about destroyers go to THAT Article. Moving off topic may result in deleted posts.
While heavy destroyers are very useful against armour, I find that they are a little too fragile and too costly for my liking.
However, to discuss how I use them when I do field them.
Seeing how they have pretty much have the only ranged weaponry that is capable of penetrating AV 13 and 14 vehicles, such vehicles are a priority for them. So I deploy them on the same half (through the middle) as the targetted vehicle to minimise movement and etc. Heavy destroyers have the tendency to be shot down very quickly by opponent firepower because they bear our only 'lascannon' equivalent and I believe that the small squad sizes contributes to that as well.
Due to their rather dear costs, it is important to use them sparingly and efficiently as possible. ie, there's no point sending them out to target a leman russ battle tank as you'd only get 10 or so pts out of the bargain and they'd get shot down quickly by the rest of the force. Personally, I only find it viable to send at least 2 heavy destroyers after something tough like a land raider or something that has a lot of points invested in it. Of course, sometimes we can be let down by misses in the to hit roll but its tends to be a hit or miss scalpel attack if you're gunning for a particular vehicle.
As much as people say that 2 lots of 3 heavy destroyers are very useful against terminator squads and 2+ sv equivalents, I reckon its pointless. Take the average 5 man squad, about 200 or so pts. Just to be able to clean them up in one (or possibly 2) turns of shooting, you'd have to invest in 2 maxed out heavy destroyer squadrons and that'd run you up to 390pts. Or even one unit would cost you 195pts. Either way, its a rather poor investment as you're wasting valuable shots to deal with something that is likely to be too numerous for a lascannon equivalent. Not to mention that the large unit(s) would get a target painted on their back.
Anyways, since I only have 2 heavy destroyers at this point of time, I usually run them in the same unit, tagging along with the destroyers and pull them out to shoot the high armour vehicles or low Sv units (if there is nothing else to shoot at). But if KPs isn't a concern, then you might as well run them as seperate units if you have the heavy support choices available. Two seperate targets and generally, better WBB survivability, not to mention more efficient shooting if it only took one shot to do the trick.
Now, I'm curious to see what others have to say.
Necrons W68-D13-L10 (3rd edition codex)
Necrons W3-D1-L1 (latest codex)
Skaven still being assembled
IMO the magic number for heavy destroyers at 1500 is 4 (a 2 by 2 setup for maximum WBB coverage) - they aren't as terribly overcosted as they used to be due to the changes 5th edition brought in for vehicle damage.
Their natural mobility makes them versatile in a way that few armies can equal when they have to make sure tank is dead (the only reason meltaguns work is becase of the melta effect, thus enabling you to roll upto a land raider's front armour and turn it into slag) and this makes taking on the main battle tanks of most races (predators, battlewagons, hammerheads etc) surprisingly easy as long as you keep moving. A common mistake in my experience is necron players gonig "cool I have S9, that land raider is dead!" when thats really not what HD's are designed to do (no matter how ironic it is), you are better of gaussing a LR until you deal some real damage and then using the HD's to finish it off.
A somewhat...unusual tactic i've seen is having a single HD joined by a Dlord so to get the T6 and extra wounds in the unit to keep it firing - its fairly meh against marines and downright pointless against guard but against a lot of other forces it can be surprisingly durable.
So far the only thing I have seen that stops them being truly awesome is bad luck, I have never seen a unit plagued by bad luck like heavy destroyers (and not in just one army, across several players' armies).
I do agree with the "bad luck" sentiment though, although really I think it's mostly because HD's are limited in number and in number of shots. HD's just don't have the numbers to be as reliable as other choices, every miss from a HD is felt much more keenly than a miss from almost any other unit, even then you still need to roll high if you want to penetrate AV of 14. I do think they have a place in the army though, weirdly enough at low points ranges. They're only 15 points more than a Destroyer, and you can take them in lower squad sizes that works to your advantage in games at 1000 points or less. A very handy rhino popper in such small games where such mobility for infantry can be deadly.
I will add to what the Outsider wrote as I think the HD is better for popping sure-things like transports and light vehicles rather than the heavier tanks, you will probably be better off relying on gauss glances to neutralise the heavier tanks with weight of light gauss fire and saving the Heavy Gauss Cannon for utterly destroying enemy transports first and later mopping up the immobilised/gunless big tanks. To destroy something like a Landraider with a heavy gauss cannon would require a successful hit followed by a very high armour penetration roll and then again rolling high for the damage table, hard to do with only a few shots, especially when compared to what those few shots would do to the likes of a rhino. You can't rely on high rolling to destroy the big tanks, unless you have a wall of dice to bury the target with, a wall which can be easily generated by any other shooty unit in the Necron army that's not a Heavy Destroyer. Sounds silly to use the big guns on the smaller fish, but with gauss the way it is I'd accept a few more likely glances rather than risking a single very unlikely penetration.
That's actually a very interesting point, I'd never thought to use HD's on the lighter stuff but I can see how it'd be more efficient than trying to pop AV14s. This supports the point about needing to use HD's efficiently as they are quite costly and somewhat fragile. Also, when I think about it, it tends to be inefficient or a waste of shooting to direct a destroyers or other shooty unit's fire at a transport or light vehicles, particularly if its only one target and the fact that you can't put the excess shots onto the passengers.
Guess I was so caught up with using the HD like an mobile lascannon platform that I forgot that any other shooty unit have just as much (maybe even better) a chance at glancing a vehicle to death as a HD unit would to penetrate it.
Necrons W68-D13-L10 (3rd edition codex)
Necrons W3-D1-L1 (latest codex)
Skaven still being assembled
I was actually thinking the same thing. Going for land raiders doesn't seem very cost effective. You need 3+ to hit and 5+ to penetrate, meaning that its only 22% chance per Heavy per shooting turn with additional 11% chance of glancing hit. If I want to glance a Raider a squad of ten Warriors will do an average of 1 glance from 24" and 2 glances from 12".
However, when comparing its effect on smaller vehicles three Heavies, equal in point cost to 10 Warriors or 3 Destroyers, will put Rhinos, Chimeras and similar AV 12 stuff out easier than Warriors or Destroyers ever will.
Last edited by Polaria; March 9th, 2010 at 19:21.
Well on a side note, I agree they're a little pricey but not super inflated. If you look at what other armies pay to get single heavy weapons it's higher on the mark, but not too bad. I agree that 1 shot is weak...however 5 shots at least promises something. My buddy has been trying to convince me 5 Heavy D's is the way to go. You're talking 5 S9 AP2 shots per turn at 325 points. Yes Landraiders are less and can have 3 lascannons, but still it's something that will hurt termies, something that will cause pain, etc.
The list my buddy wants me to run is this:
5 Heavy D's
(fill rest with warriors, lord+orb, immortals, etc)
The idea here is, you have 4 very REAL threats. You force the enemy to fire on one threat while 3 others cause havoc. If they ignore your Heavy D's, some serious armor negation from termies or vehicles. If they ignore the Deceiver...once he's in CC he's a mad house (escaping CC 2d6 in their turn for addtl movement, etc). If they ignore the monolith [and most do] you're dropping pie plates on them, contesting objectives, portalling around, etc. And lastly, who can ignore 30 S6 shots per turn! I mean seriously, 30 shots that can auto glance to clear the rest of a MECH army and such.
All in all it sounds very decent as I run a similar list at 2k. All I need to do is make room for the 5 Heavy D's and see where it hits.
Last edited by Dark Trainer; March 9th, 2010 at 21:18.
"There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
If you are discussing wether to choose normals or heavies against vehicles, search the forums, and you'll find out that against AV 11-13 the heavy is the way to go. Thats almost any tank in the game.
Aside from that, I'm playing most against Tyranids, so I'm going to buy heavies definitely! They are our best weapons against all those MC around there.
At least, on paper
I think heavies are good for popping transports, MC's, and TEQ's. Almost all lists nowadays have at least something of that in it, so I can't see why everyone is so negative about them. Sure, they are expensive, but they CAN make their point back, right?
I hope someone here can really convince me to buy some heavies
In my last tourney they had one game where my 2x2 squad went 1 hit for 9 shots shooting.... arrrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhh.. my one hit was an ork truck.. whoopdido...
NECRON Army List Builder a Free excel capable list generator for 5th and 6th ed. 11/2011
Necrons - 6000 points, Tau - 6000, Daemons - 5250, Eldar - 4500, Blood Angels - 5000
Some pics form my hobby. http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r...arodragon/40k/