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So, I've been thinking a bit about the hive tyrant in 5th edition, and I'm starting to doubt his efficiency. First off, he's kind of a monster in CC, but with so few attacks, I kind of feel that he won't make his points back there. So to balance it up, we give him some ranged weaponry, while doing so we make him slightly less efficient in CC. We could also opt to give him wings, which helps him engage the right enemy unit. Either of these two ways, and especially giving him wings, will make him very, very expensive. And if we want to keep him walking, we almost have to give him some tyrant guards, or the high str low ap weapons will bring him down in no time.
Now, i don't really think he's worth all those points. He's not very good at shooting, and he's not really that good at CC either, and if we make him decent at both, he's so darn expensive the rest of your army will suffer for it.
So, looking at the rest of the HQs, It really seems to me that the hive tyrant is one of the weakest of the lot. the prime is about 1/3 of the cost and is a real monster in CC if accompanied by some warriors.
But most of all, it just seems to me that GW wants us to play with the tervigon. The tervigon has more resilience than the tyrant, can give units feel no pain, which is amazing, and most importantly, he creates scoring units for us, saving us a lot of points and really helps in winning the battle.
What's your take on the HQs? have I missed something about the tyrant? is there some magic build that will make him more viable than the tervigon or the prime? The only thing i really feel is nice about the tyrant is the hive commander ability, but I don't like paying that much for it.
"I have seen you humans, trying to forge an Empire in the name of a corpse"
I just take the tyrant for the plain intimidation factor, and, for me, the only reason I take a tyrant is for the wings, and psycic powers.
And yes, a Prime is more than adequate in CC for most situaions, but, like the new codex on a whole, each unit and character has its own very specific uses, and the tyant has a very nice niche to fill, as they are genrally one of the only all-rounders we have, he can hunt tanks, tear up armored infantry, provide ample distractions, provide synapse and ultimatly, command your army, seeing as he has some nice army boosting affects :p
also seeing as I usually pod and outflank the hell out of my opponents, they are pretty much mandatory for me.
Honestly, I find myself coming back to him mainly because of Hive Commander.
When you're trying to build a Deep Strike army you don't seem to have many other options.
If I could stick that on a couple Primes instead, my Tyrant would become a shelf decoration.
Hive Commander is one of the most useful upgrades in the codex, if, that is, you have a mainly/all deepstriking army. Other than that, I'm a fan of a Prime with 3 Warriors all with Dual Boneswords.
+++XENOS SPOTTED+++ thrilling battles within the Vitorina subsector: http://xenosspotted.blogspot.com/
I take mine with wings and hive commander. The psy powers are great for reducing your target's ability. Last game I reduced a command squad to 1ws/bs and multi-assaulted it. I also want to shy away from the tervigon since everyone and their brother see it as the best thing since sliced bread. Plus they do want you to take tervigon. This forces you to buy more and more and more gaunts to use it to it's fullest extent.
this blog post for why you should never take units based on "making their points back".
You should take units for what they bring to your army.
A hive tyrant is a tyranid army force multiplier. Take Old Adversary, and your entire army has just become the scariest assault army in the game. Take Hive Commander, and you've just improved your odds of getting your reserves in when you want them (making going all or nearly all reserves a viable tactical option).
A hive tyrant is intimidating, especially with tyrant guard. You may pooh-pooh his assault capabilities, but he's a monstrous creature! He can shoot like crazy if you want. Almost nobody wants to get stuck in a combat against this guy. He shuts down enemy psykers.
What's so bad about the tyrant?
Doesn't mean you have to use him. But dismissing him is naive.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
In terms of the Tyrant, I've heard a lot of good things about Old Adversary from people doing serious testing of the different builds. It's something that's on my list to try out. I want to see it when he's anchored in the middle of a swarm of Termagants (with Poison and FC and CA from the Tervigon) with Warriors or Raveners or Genestealers around, if he's worth the monstrous point cost for himself plus a couple Guard.
I think that the Hive Tyrant is one of the best HQ units in the game but it also one of the most expensive, this makes it rather bitter sweet. I think to get the best out of your Tyrant he needs to hang about with lots of other bugs. He is the big-boss and his assault abilities will destroy many enemies. If this takes place while your opponent has to face lots of other bugs then the Hive Tyrant can act without too many enemies annoying it, when they do this they are very nasty.
I think the problem is getting it there. Armoured shell is one way to do it and Tyrant Guard too. You may not want to pay for Tyrant Guard but most HQ units have to cough up for a squad of lackeys or they are on their own and get squished. Run the thing up the table to get it close and have some Venomthropes nearby. The Venomthropes will help out with cover saves. I think that it is the way Tyranids work best. No bug is an island! Make them all work together and you will get much better performance out of them.
I recently decided to give them a shot as my HQ choice and although after the first time I spawned my (FREE) guants I was no longer able to produce anymore they did some serious damage. It wasn't until turn five that one of my tervigons (both HQ) actually died. At T6 and 6 Wounds I think for survivability these guys far outmatch the tyrant point for point.
Although strategically a tyrant is probably a better option (given its upgrades and psychic powers), Tervigons did very well even with only producing 21 guants the whole game. And giving them toxin and adrenal glands just makes them that much better! IMO. Did I mention they cost less after upgrades too?
"No bug is an island!" Nice to hear someone finally agrees with me on this one.
I find alot of people are missing this point in the new book... there is almost no unit in this book that will function independently and give you the results your looking for. Almost every unit is made to support or be supported by something else and this should be kept in mind when choosing your units for your list.
Meaning if you don't see the Tyrant being a good support choice for the rest of your list he probably isn't
Just my thoughts, you can choose to agree or disagree