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So I've recently ordered 3 Wraithlords, not because they are great, but rather because their models are great. That and I occasionally want to vary my lists to keep my opponents on their toes. Anyway, I've read that people use Mind War to pick out nasty powerfist/claw models out of big units so that they can't wound the Wraithlord. This tactic didn't sound that effective to me since Mind War tends to be fickle and I reasoned that since my opponents Boyz-units are always 30 models strong and thus are Fearless and uber due to the Mob Rule Orks have.
BUT! After having read the Ork codex a little closer I'm not sure if the Mob Rule should work against Mind War, and if Mind War works against the unmodified LD value of the Nob it immediately becomes more reliable. The wording in the Ork codex is the following "Because of this, Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in their mob for their normal Leadership value.". In my eye this means that any tests taken as a unit are taken on that value, but tests that individual models need to take use the regular unmodified LD value. I know it's quite vague and it's trying to make the rules benefit me, but in this case it might be justified, those Ork Boy mobs are just too good.
To sum up. The Mob Rule Works against Pinning, Morale Checks, Spirit Leech (Doom of Melan'tai) and other things that require the LD of the unit. The Mob Rule doesn't work against Mind War, Direswords, Boneswords (the instant death part) and other things that require the LD of the model.
So, do I have it right? Or is this just wishful thinking?
Hmm that does make sense, as you aren't targetting 'the mob' your targetting a single unit.
Interested to hear other opinions.
Your interpretation is correct. You're not targeting the unit, but rather the individual model, therefore, you use that models unmodified leadership score. Being fearless, uber, or space marine has no effect against mind war, since it's an opposed test
Just popped the question over in the Orky part of the forum, and they disagreed with my interpretation. You can find the thread here.
So the INAT/Adepticon FAQ clarified it for us, although it isn't truly "official" from GW I still like to think of it as about as official as things can be in 40k. So in short, the Nob benefits from the Mob Rule when targeted by Mind War.
From the FAQ:
+ORK.31B.01 – Q: Does the Ld value of an Ork in a
mob benefit from the ‘Mob Rule’ when they are
targeted individually such as with Eldar Mind War?
A: Yes, individual Orks within a mob may always benefit from
the Mob Rule up to a maximum Ld value of 10 (no matter
how many Orks beyond ten the mob actually has)
Ah, that's not even close to official.
So, you can use it, but don't ever try to use those rules in a game with me. Some of the rules they use are ass backwards. There are lots of posts in here that basically tear some of their decisions apart.
The Eldar Codex itself gives us an answer, we're looking too far into it.
"add the leadership of their respective models". Not the leadership of the entire unit. The leadership of the individual model. No modifications, nothing. The model. I know this is going to start a disagreement, but that's how it's worded. That's the rule. Adepticon is wrong in their view of the rule.
And with that, I'll leave this fire alone.
Adepticon is wrong most of the time, just leave them out of debates. I believe mind war does work because of this of what is said in the previous post; it is respective models and not the mob.
What are you going to do when I refuse to remove the Nob as a casualty?
FYI - units don't have leadership...MODELS have leadership. Orks units use the leadership of the model OR the number of boyz in the unit, whichever is higher. In the case of a leadership test where fearless doesn't come into play, then they use LD10.
Don't try it on you...so funny! Somebody around here REALLY needs those wins, I guess.....
yay! internet hardmen!!
MindWar do not require a leadership test. Is a Ld value+D6 opposed test (see page 8 of rulebook for description of leadership tests). Then it say you use the Ld value of the model. The Ork mob rule state that at any time the ork player can substitute the Ld value of the model with the number of the boys in squad (to a maximum of ld 10 becuse of the max 10 rule that has only 1 exception the armopour value of a vehicle). The ork codex states that is used for any test not only for Ld tests. Also is stated in the rulebook that modifiers apply to the leadership values. So is not mandatory to use unmodified Ld value (same 8`th page). So as codex says the ork player can choose to use the number of boys instead of the normal Ld value for mind war.
I learnt something new from internet about the rules today
Last edited by niraco; March 18th, 2010 at 11:44.
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
I'd like to add that the GW official FAQ for Orks states that the Weirdboy benefits from the Mob Rule when making psychic tests, the INAT FAQ seems to be just an extension of that. Sadly, I'm siding with the Orks on this one, although I wish I didn't have to.