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    HQ with a bonding knife

    i see alota people with this in their list; a Shas'el or Shas'o with a bonding knife.to me, this seems like a completely pointless use of 5pts.let me explain why; the bonding knife is purchased to allow a unit to regroup even if below 50% starting size. so lets say our bonded HQ joins a unit of XV8s. now, no matter if the unit had 1, 2 or 3 suits originally, the only time it will be below 50% after the HQ has joined is when all the original suits die. but when all the suits die, the HQ is by himself, so doesn't he just count as an independent character again? and an idependent character can only be either 100% or 0% of starting size, not below 50%, so what's the point of having a bonding knife? it's not like he can be a maimed torso thinking "i got no arms or groin or legs, but i got my bonding knife, so even though im only half as big as i was 6 turns ago, im not guna run just yet!".it seems so obvious to me that im begining to think maybe im missing something in either the independent character, HQ or bonding knife rules? am i?thanks


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    Sir Proofreader Deadstar_MRC's Avatar
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    Well, there are two reasons I can think of off the top of my head for a bonding knife. Three, actually.

    Firstly, fluff: From what I remember it's usually veterans who take the oaths that permit them to carry a bonding knife. You might just want to represent that fact in your army, even if it's not an effective use of points. This is probably the main reason you see people doing this - their just trying to have an army that stays true to the fluff.

    Secondly, points filling: Sometimes it's just easier to stick a throwaway item somewhere to use up your points. Arguably there may be something better you could invest in but whatever, maybe the bonding knife sounds cool.

    Thirdly, drones: I have some vague recollection of Drones counting towards the unit size, but you'd have to ask someone else about this.
    Rabbit; Our Tau community has the talent of figuring out how to turn a feather into a timebomb. Macgyver would be jealous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadstar_MRC View Post
    Thirdly, drones: I have some vague recollection of Drones counting towards the unit size, but you'd have to ask someone else about this.
    drones only count to loosing 25% in a shooting phase

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    The codex says that drones are included when determining if a unit is below 50 % for Victory point purposes, so I've always played as if this means they count as models when determining if below 50 % for regrouping. Especially since the codex also says that if the drones are with an Independent character, the IC and drones form a unit, meaning the drones aren't just wargear but actual models in the unit. So yes a BK would help with drones.

    Its actually a very good setup to have a commander with 2 other suits, BK knife, and two drones (or 3 other suits and 1 drone), because 5 is the smallest number of models in a unit needed to increase the kills needed to cause a panic test from one to two, and the unit can still regroup once it has lost 3 members. This is another reason people field pathfinders in groups of five, though some forgo the bonding knife with the pathfinders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plasmarocks View Post
    The codex says that drones are included when determining if a unit is below 50 % for Victory point purposes, so I've always played as if this means they count as models when determining if below 50 % for regrouping. Especially since the codex also says that if the drones are with an Independent character, the IC and drones form a unit, meaning the drones aren't just wargear but actual models in the unit. So yes a BK would help with drones.
    but the ICw/drone unit can still join other units, so they aren't your typical unit obviously.

    and it only mentions counting below 50% for Victory Points, so its a given it only counts for Victory Points rules, not regrouping under 50% rules

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    Ancient Spacefarer Kai-Itza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggynous View Post
    but the ICw/drone unit can still join other units, so they aren't your typical unit obviously.
    Let me clear this up; your XV8 Commander is an IC, so follows the rules under IC's in the BRB. It also says within the BRB that every unit choice, whether it's a single miniature, a squad, monster, vehicle and whatever is known as a unit. So, whether your XV8 Commander follows the IC rules or not, he is still counts as a unit. Codex: TE states that if a character selects drones of any type as it's wargear, it loses it's IC rules and is still a unit, just that it is now a squad .

    Quote Originally Posted by Iggynous View Post
    and it only mentions counting below 50% for Victory Points, so its a given it only counts for Victory Points rules, not regrouping under 50% rules
    This codex was written during 4e where back then, VP was part of the mission criteria. In 5e it was ruled out and replaced with the simplified 'Kill Point' criteria, so that rule "counting below 50% for victory points" is now obsolete, it doesn't exist now in 5e, the "regrouping even if below 50% in unit size" applies for BK's, not drones.

    For example: Your commander has a couple of Gun Drones slaved to him by a Drone Controller and him and his unit get shot at and two of the drones die. The unit was 3 models in strength and now, this has been cut down by 66.66%, if the XV8 Commander fails his leadership he will not regroup unless he has the BK handy. If he hasn't, bye-bye Commander.

    Hope this helps


    -Kai-Itza-
    Last edited by Kai-Itza; March 23rd, 2010 at 12:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai-Itza View Post
    Let me clear this up; your XV8 Commander is an IC, so follows the rules under IC's in the BRB. It also says within the BRB that every unit choice, whether it's a single miniature, a squad, monster, vehicle and whatever is known as a unit. So, whether your XV8 Commander follows the IC rules or not, he is still counts as a unit. Codex: TE states that if a character selects drones of any type as it's wargear, it loses it's IC rules and is still a unit, just that it is now a squad .



    This codex was written during 4e where back then, VP was part of the mission criteria. In 5e it was ruled out and replaced with the simplified 'Kill Point' criteria, so that rule "counting below 50% for victory points" is now obsolete, it doesn't exist now in 5e, the "regrouping even if below 50% in unit size" applies for BK's, not drones.

    For example: Your commander has a couple of Gun Drones slaved to him by a Drone Controller and him and his unit get shot at and two of the drones die. The unit was 3 models in strength and now, this has been cut down by 66.66%, if the XV8 Commander fails his leadership he will not regroup unless he has the BK handy. If he hasn't, bye-bye Commander.

    Hope this helps


    -Kai-Itza-
    are you serious?

    damn that sucks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai-Itza View Post
    For example: Your commander has a couple of Gun Drones slaved to him by a Drone Controller and him and his unit get shot at and two of the drones die. The unit was 3 models in strength and now, this has been cut down by 66.66%, if the XV8 Commander fails his leadership he will not regroup unless he has the BK handy. If he hasn't, bye-bye Commander.
    -Kai-Itza-
    but your forgetting the fact that as soon as all the drones die, the Commander becomes an IC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggynous View Post
    but your forgetting the fact that as soon as all the drones die, the Commander becomes an IC
    he was already in independant character with a squad size of 3(yes odd i know), so if u kill 2/3rd's of a squad then he cant rally, ever, if its him and 2 crisis suits and no drones yes its pointless coz if the 2nd suit dies he is no longer a squad and could rally, but if you take drones it useful.
    Fantasy : Empire, Chaos Warriors, Chaos Daemons, Vampire Counts, Beastmen, High Elves, Lizardmen( but i have opinions on every army just not the money)
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    It is true that an independent character with drones is still considered independent for all purposes. Yet it is an independent character with 3 models. As far as I know we are the only army that can do this.

    There is a 4rth reason to take the bonding knife on a commander. If you have a unit falling back that is below half strength and has no bonding knife, say Kroot. If you can join that unit in the movement phase before it falls off the table, you would be able to give that unit the chance to regroup the following turn at the commanders leadership thereby saving the unit. Yes, this will run the chance of losing the commander, but if this is your last troop choice and you need them to claim objectives it might be worth the risk.
    - Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

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