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So I've been reading around, and theres lots of snippets about Necrons in 5th and how things changed, but they aren't usually explained very well, just that they changed, some I get, like the changes to sweeping, but it'd be nice to get some kind of overview or if you could just point me to the right thread it'd be much appreciated.
Due to the 5th edition CC resolution system, the battle is determined by who inflicts the most wounds and the loser takes a morale check. However, it is negatively modified by the difference of the number of wounds of the CC. (ie losing to a difference of 5 wounds will result in you taking an Ld test with -5 to the Ld value). That, combined with necron's I2 makes it unbelieveably easy to get swept since Ld isn't gonna do much for you when you lose big and I2 is a joke against most models.
The gauss rule got nerfed. Thanks to the redesigned damage table, glancing hits use a modifier of -2 on the table, meaning the best you can do is immobilise a vehicle. So gauss no longer kills vehicles outright. You can still glance it to death but just takes more shots to do so.
Those are the major changes in my eyes. i'll leave it up to the others to chime in with others that I may have missed.
Necrons W68-D13-L10 (3rd edition codex)
Necrons W3-D1-L1 (latest codex)
Skaven still being assembled
the_pariah7 pretty much hit it on the head. Necrons before 5th were really quite competitive, but two things were updated in the rules that nerfed us completely: Sweeping Advance and Vehicle Damage Table. That's pretty much it.
The major problem with the Necron army list is that most, if not all, units cannot change their equipment or loadout. This means that there is no way to get around these inherent disadvantages. You stay out of combat and you need to shoot more at vehicles to cause any damage - that's it.
It's generally just accepted that we play with a sub-par army. Due to the way our army list works, there isn't really a lot we can do about it. As it stands, there are only a couple of decent competitive builds. Those more or less involve spamming as many Destroyers as possible. Triple-Monoliths, while scary, isn't competitive and is more a gimmick.
I compete with 10 destroyers, a Deceiver, and a Monolith. My 30 warriors then pretty much HIDE or shoot MAX range only and avoid CC at all costs (unless it's Tau or Guard). But as stated yeah, Destroyer spam is great, and my Deceiver is a monster still!
However I think Raven just opened my eyes as to WHY 5th edition hit us harder than most. We aren't customizable...not that I want that (fluff and all), but because we can't adapt we got pidgeon holed.
Last edited by Dark Trainer; April 1st, 2010 at 15:55.
"There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
Don't we NEED to be adaptive*, due to the fluff? We were the rulers of the galaxy, we've got improved technologies! We need the potentional power to rule every other army out there.
*With adaptive I mean things like Living Metal etc.
When there is will, there is a way... or so I've found out.
Yes, we are weak in CC and get swept in one turn. It also means that nothing gets stuck into CC with us for a long time which means we can usually pour fire on them round after round. For example my latest 1500 point army has four (4) squads of warriors. Yes, about anyone can assault and sweep away one of the squads in first assault. And then get hit by up to 60 gauss shots from the others.
Our problem is mainly the scale of specialization. We simply can't get a squad with flamer, anti-tank, hidden power fist and lots of bolters. We *can* get lots of bolters, a warscythe and a las-cannon. Its just that its three different choices instead of one. Yes, it is a disadvantage. No, I wouldn't want it any other way.
Last edited by Polaria; April 3rd, 2010 at 12:55.
Polaria just touched on something very critical here, the fact that it's hard to keep Necrons in combat for another turn. There is a "magic number" for a lot of squads (for Khorne Berzerkers which I play it's and the reason behind this is that it's the number of models that it will statistically take to remain in a combat into the opponents next turn. However, when you have squads like Necron Warriors who will most probably run and get chopped down at the end of a combat even with these "magic numbers" and then get back up to shoot along with their buddies, it spells bad news for CC troops. So, for as much of a weakness as CC is for Necrons, it's also a strength to have these CC units be left out in the open to get shot down.
World Eaters: W-47 D-10 L-9
Necrons: W-19 D-3 L-2
Protectorate of Menoth: W-36 D-0 L-7
I think that Necrons are surprisingly good and competitive when you take into account the fact that Necrons still play using 3rd edition codex. The main problem in our old codex is that the two big nerfs (vehicle damage table and sweeping advance) have left us with precious little room for different lists and tactics. Our strenghts (being able to push out a very respectable fireopower while outlasting enemy) and or weaknesses (getting wiped out in seconds when a mechanized enemy rushes our lines and unloads a group of heavy-hitting, higher I CC troops) stay same no matter what kind of list you build and thus your tactics will stay the same.
We are not really "obsolete" in the sense of not being able to win. We are just very, very one-dimensional when you compare us to any newer Codexes which invariably support at least 2 to 3 (or even more) radically different playstyles and respective armylists. In heavily competitive games our lack of options means that other competitors can prepare for our basic tactics with clear confidence that there won't be any surprises coming from us.
Revenant Moon Necrons: (W/L/D) 0/1/0 (6th edition: 13/2/2)(5th edition: 14/6/4)(3rd edition Codex: 16/4/7)
XIX Legion: (W/L/D) 0/0/0 (5th edition: 14/12/2)(5th edition Codex: 4/3/0)
Black Legion: (W/L/D) 1/0/0 (6th edition: 2/3/0)
Something Wicked... Reikwald Beastmen: (W/L/D) 10/4/1