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I have 3 models to use as HQs right now. 2 Hive Tyrants and a Prime. I am considering converting a tyrant to a swarmlord but can't make up my mind. So now comes the question: What are the pros and cons of having 2 tyrants or a tyrant and prime?
Well, I have two questions: Do you ever intend on fielding two tyrants at the same time? Question two: are these tyrants magnetized?
Actually, I'm going to skip number one. If your answer to number two is 'no', we need to change that. If you get some rare earth magnets, each one of your tyrants could become a flyrant (with guns or with talons), a dakkatyrant, or a swarmlord! This will solve your problem completely.
Applaud, my friend, the Comedy is finished.
Hive Fleet Charybdis (1-0-0) and Grey Brothers Space Wolf Chapter (3-1-2) [W-L-T]
I've had a bad experience with ordering rare earth magnets. UPS is stupid and can't find a house less than a mile from their building. As soon as I get a card I plan on trying again using Fedex which I know can find me as they have before. I'm just looking for some ideas untill then.
Also, my tyrants are both winged.
Last edited by Akruze; April 6th, 2010 at 20:44.
Personally, I'd take the two Tyrants. In my army, I usually take a Swarmlord and a Flyrant, which can cause absolute devastation to an army. The only trouble is, they often become huge fire-magnets, taking a huge chunk out of your points early in the game. I do a few things to get around this.
1. Give them gaunt shields, because a cover save can be a life saver when up against an army with lascannons. And 2. Take a Doom of Malantai in a spore. This only costs roughly 150 points, and not only can it take a huge chunk out of your enemies lines, it also becomes an even bigger fire magnet than the Tyrants, and though it is 150 points, it is nothing compared to the 300+ you could be spending on a Swarmlord with a couple of Tyrant Guard.
If you are going to take two HQs, I would recommend a Tyrant+Prime. I've had great luck with the Prime in the past. Just in my last game he solo'd a sternguard squad and then ripped a librarian apart before finally succumbing to a tactical squad + a predator all shooting at him. I usually run him with scything talons + dual boneswords and adrenal glands (if I have the points). When he charges he has 5 attacks at WS6, re-rolling 1s to hit, wounding marines on 2s, with power weapons and instant death on 3d6 against opponent's leadership. All for around 100 points. Personally, I can't think of anything that beats that point for point. Oh, and he can also take the rocket/melta hits that would insta-kill the warriors around him. I would say that at this point in time, I use a prime in 4 out of 5 of my lists. Don't get me wrong, I like Tyrants too, but I just think that they die too quickly and I am rarely satisfied with their performance, though that might just be my opponents. I'm iffy on the swarmlord. Sure he's extremely powerful, but I think that with him and the guards (which you have to take or he will die before he reaches the enemy), he's just too expensive. With the points spent on him and two guards I could get (iirc) 4 Hive Guard, 3 Zoanthropes, and still have 20 points left over to play with.
That's just my two cents. As always, people's play styles and metagames differ so two Tyrants or a Tyrant+Swarmlord would fit in where you play.
It depends on the points level and theme of your army. There's no doubt that tyrants are way more productive than primes. The question is whether or not you can afford it. At 1.5K, I always take at least 1 tyrant. At 2K, I take 2 tyrants. With them, I am currently 16W-1L-3D. Flyrants will get shot down, but give your walkrant each 1 tyrant guard and FNP from your tervigon and they are the most survivable unit in the Tyranid codex.
The swarmlord works in only 2 cases: 1) as an counter-assault unit in a shooty nid list (with hive guards and tyranofexes) or 2) works with a flyrant in an all-reserves tyranid list. Otherwise, normally the dakkarant is much more productive.
Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2
The Swarmlord is fine. But because of his expense (he comes with a required investment in tyrant guard) and speed (namely: the lack thereof), you do have to build a list specifically around him. But there are at least a few ways to skin that cat, not just the one that jy2 implies.
Similarly, the dakka tyrant -- flying or otherwise -- is not the be all and end all of tyrant builds.
To actually get the heart of your question: Why would you want to run 2 HQs to begin with? Many 'nids lists certainly don't require 2 HQs, and many 'nid lists don't use a single tyrant whether they run 1 or 2 HQs. I happen to really love the big bugs, so many of my lists are biased to favor the Tyrant, but 1-2 Tyrants are definitely not requirements for quality 'nid lists. I've seen several that use just 1 Prime and that's it.
It all depends on where you want or need to spend your points. Tyrants -- and the Swarmlord in particular -- can become big points sinkholes if you're not careful. (And sometimes, even if you are!) That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is something you have to always consider.
If you like the Swarmlord, build it. If you don't like him, don't. He's definitely the nastiest assault monster in the game right now, bar none. If you can supply him with a list that will help to deliver him on target, you'll get some good mileage out of him. If not, you'll actually agree with jy2 and find him a waste. How good he is (or is not) is totally up to your list-fu and playing skill.
Finally: I would repeat the recommendation to use magnets. Your difficulties aside, I own two Tyrants but can build out either of them to be anything I want: a swarmlord, two flyrants, any weapons, it's all good. Worth the effort, as it's saved me a ton of cash and enabled me to play anything I want with them.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
Cool. My thread resurfaced.
So what I am thinking is using 1 flyrant accompanied by gargoyles and shrikes as kind of a strike team, while the rest of my army, being my swarmlord and guard, 2 tervigons with 2 units of termagants, my hive guard, and my zoanthropes, walk-in, and my 2 trygons/mawloc (depending on how I am feeling on the day ) cause some chaos in midfield letting everything else close in.