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I did not see a lot of army list with venomthropes brood and I was considering giving them a go. I would like to use this thread to speak about strategies to use venomthropes adequately. I'll first state what I have in mind.
Before starting any discussion, let me say that an all deepstriking army is out of the question if we plan on using the venomthrope. I think what first comes into mind is a swarm like army which contains a mix of small/big stuff sticking together to make better use of the defensive grenade and cover save.
Now on to the cover save. Clearly Trygon, Tervigon and other MC benefit more from the 5+ cover save than other non-mc. As for smaller bugs they get cover save from being behind others. The first line however will not get this and the venomthrope could fill this gap.
If we assume that everything has a cover save (front line and MC) the weakness of the list is the easy to kill venomthrope. Hence we need to protect them. I see two ways to protect them, first including a prime with them and abusing target allocation. The second protection I see is giving them FnP from catalyst. Now I find the last idea really nice especially if you only have one tervigon. By giving FnP to the venomthrope (which are giving cover save to everything else) you are in a win/win situation:
- Your opponent target venomthrope: you get FnP. Everything else is safer.
- If he targets something else: you get 5+ cover where you shouldn't. Your opponent still needs to kill venomthrope.
Actually, on one of your points im going to have to disagree with you, deep striking is extremely useful for venomthropes, especially if your worried about a counter charge, defensive grenades are just a godsend on turn two, if your playing agaisnt orks, the new BA, any army that can hold its own in assault, the defensive grenades are awesome.
not to mention the cover save your gribblies get, to protect them from return fire, of course this works for MC's aswell, I find that a brood of venomthropes works wonders.
and last but not least, they can get into an assault and beef it up a bit, possibly killing one or two models.
Thats just my opinion anyway, other that that, looks good!
I'm going to have to totally agree here. Venomthropes are not just better in a DS'ing army but they are FAR better. Footslogging across the board with them while useful to a footslogging army still opens up a couple of turns for your opponent to do something about it but it gives them TIME. When he's part of a deepstrikecentric army he does exactly the same job.. But your opponent has ONE turn to do the exact same thing. So the choice and outcome is MUCH more impactful. Kill the VT and let the swarm hit you stronger (larger) -vs- ignore the VT and have a stronger swarm (supported). It forces a harder choice for an opponent.
In short. I think it's a choice between good and great.
a lot of the lists i see here are definitely sorely lacking in venomthrope presence - but i think i take issue with most of the 'optimal' builds that have been posted.
i always run a venomthrope, he is totally invaluable, and i may get around to making another one some time. your points about keeping him alive are important, but i've only lost the guy a couple of times. he's just not a priority. this may change as time goes on, but i always stick him behind my foot slogging MCs, often totally denying LOS and when you have MCs charging at you, you really don't worry about the pokey tentacled thing in the back.
i think it'd be easier to just just fork out the 55pts for another venomthrope and just double your wounds.
heck, i even like chucking him into combat with MCs. knocking everyone down to I1 is handy for the big fellas, so i'd say charge the venomthrope in, get him surrounded by enemies, then get your MC's into the fray
It's a very good point on deepstriking venomthropes. It seems people find their defensive grenade more useful than the cover save but then again the cover save is not interesting in a deepstriking army list.
For those of you who used them before, how many did you use? 2 seems like a good number in a foot-slogging swarm.
i've only got the one because that's all i could afford at the time, and to be honest, all i can be bothered painting right now.
BUT, i would definitely like another.
even thinking of stripping a couple of the lash whips off each of them to give to some shrikes i plan to build
venomthropes advancing or being near gaunts that charge vehicles have the added bonus of giving said gaunts defensive grenades and thus 4+d6 penetration on their rear armor without having to pay for tervigon/gaunt adrenal glands. It's a nice little bonus for the little buggers and can save some buku points for army wide upgrades.
maybe that's just me, but i think that is not what the rule is meant for and i would never use it that way...
With people trying to say that a mawloc cannot choose to deepstrike on models for it's special rule (some say that it only takes effect if it happens to scatter onto an enemy unit) and that spore mines count as kill points (as "objectives" are only referred to in the rulebook when speaking of capture nodes), I'll take what I can get. I don't see how GW could have overlooked such an effect, as it's not a rule bending or interpretation. It's a simple fact: they count as being armed with defensive grenades. It could be rationalized as damage caused by the cloud eating away at the hulls of vehicles. =)