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I was planning to start up a tyranid army in the near future and was looking around the army lists section for inspiration on some good lists. I noticed that there are very few lists making use of carnifexes, and I was wondering why this might be the case.
I know in the stickied codex review the poster indicated that they were slightly over costed, however the lack of use is discouraging to say the least as I think the models look pretty cool. As I was planning to start up my army soon I was going to pick up a few of these models, but if they would not hold up their own in a competitive environment I might make some purchases for more kill-y models.
well your assessment is right, the general consensus is they're just far too expensive points-wise for what you get.
having said that, they're definitely not as underpowered/over-costed as the internet may lead you to believe. i've had decent success running them in broods, usually two fexes together armed with stranglethorn cannons and devourers. that way they both can benefit efficiently from the buffs many of the other nid units will dish out (primarily tervigons and venomthropes). and having an extra fex to act as ablative wounds has seen at least one of my fexes reach the enemy lines, where it will still dish out a heap of punishment.
there's always the option of putting a fex armed with dual devourers in a mycetic spore, which i've only done once and can see a heap of potential.
i also have yet to run a brood of CC fexes, just naked except for bioplasma and maybe adrenal sacs. its something i really want to do because i have a real soft-spot for screamer killers.
but i recenlt changed around my list, and ended up dropping a bunch of stuff i usually take, including my fexes. and i was stoked with how it performed. i need to play with it a few more times to further refine it, but it could look like my fexes are going to be shelved for a wee while
Last edited by potatolegs; April 21st, 2010 at 04:48.
Seems like they might have some potential, but certainly the pts issue may be one I have trouble overcoming as I would prefer better performing over cool-looking. I'm happy to hear that your new list has been performing well. Might I ask what you are running?
Also I've stumbled across a really good deal in which I would be able to pick up 3 fexes. Are they good candidates for conversions into other models, as if that is the case I might look into buying them to try out and if they don't work out simple convert them into something else.
I still like carnifexes with dual TL-devourers. They're much more expensive than before (190 vs 114!) but every time I've used them, they've produced some results for me. Anything less than 1750pts I normally run with Trygons as I feel they're more cost effective, but at higher points games, I'll consider "dakkafexes" as they're sometimes called.
Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2
i've got three fexes myself and a fourth that i converted into a tervigon (though it still really only looks like just a fex :s)
check a few project logs here and in other forums and you'll see all sorts of versatility in the fex kit to make the units in the codex that don't have models yet, units that are very popular in people's army lists
as for my list, i've only played it once, but i think it'll handle fairly well
Hive Tyrant with scy tals, wings and hive commander
two Hive Guard
2x 12 man broods of devourer termagants
20 man toxined hormagaunts
2x 10 man toxined genestealer broods, one with an additional broodlord attached
Tervigon with catalyst, adrenal glands + toxin sacs, crushing claws and regen
Trygon prime with regen.
initially i made it only to cater for new units i had built but hadn't used yet, but there's a pretty solid core of troops in there. the only thing i'll change for my next game would be to marry the two units of termagants, as i see little use to split them. its gotten some criticism along the lines that apparently i don't have enough AT (this is where my carnifexes would be useful, but only in close combat), and this was illustrated some what in the game i played with it - i just couldn't kill my opponent's landraider in CC after it managed to pop both my zoanthropes. also the list has been picked at for my tyrant having hive commander, but i find that ability is pretty damned pivotal for what i want to do; mainly deep striking the trygon and hive tyrant.
we'll see how it fares against a friend's space wolves this saturday, and i'll make ammendments to it after that.
Don't underestimate the carnifex!
I haven't tried CC fexes, but i have tried dakkafexes (2x Twin linked devourers)
I use them in a squad of 2.
The way i use them is that i have a tervigon behind them (getting cover from them) Though the main reason is the onslaught ability. If (most likely) you pass the test, you will be able to do your normal 6" move +d6 extra move in the shooting and you are able to shoot as well. Most likely you will have ranged with you dakkafex 1st turn!
I keep doing that every round getting closer and closer. Since they are awesome in bashing tanks i need to get close as fast as possible.
You could almost say they are CC fexes. (Just running forward, though you get bonus of firing aswell) And you shouldn't be worried about CC since you have 3 MC´s + extra from the gaunts.
Or you just make a half circle in front of them preventing cc.
As you can see i love dakkafex.
I'm very disappointed in the new carnifex. Its price is just to high, I much rather run trygons. I have tried them out a little though, but they haven't done very well. I'm just sad, the carnifexes used to be such a great addition to my army, now they're more or less collecting dust on the shelf. Big shame.
Though I can totally see why GW did this. They just want us to convert our carnifexes into tervigons or tyrannofexes, so we have to buy new carnifexes for our next codex, where they will be totally awesome once again. I hate you GW
"I have seen you humans, trying to forge an Empire in the name of a corpse"
Actually, I don't mind the new fexes that much at all, I thaught that I hated them when I first got the codex but....They're actually turning out to be a quite viable choice, Ive even run a brood of 3 screamer-killers at one point, a very scary sight, especially when aided by FnP. they still do their job well, and, while I admit I miss my dakkafex and my godfex of doom, they were out of place and the new fexes have more synergy with the codex as a whole.
I love them trygons but, nothing will fill the role of a fex quite the same way.
besides, this gives me a reason to use my trio of 2nd edition fexes! Bio-plasma AWAAAAAAYYYYYYY!!
People really really really need to forget the 4e 'Nid codex and what Carnifexes were in that. The Carnifex was the only reason you could even play Tyranids even halfway competitively. And the reason for that was because you could spam them cheaply. They were way undercosted.
They are now fairly costed.
And they remain the cheapest MC available to the Tyranids. For 160 pts, you get a very efficient dual scything talons beast that can reliably rip apart anything, infantry or vehicle, even Land Raiders.
Every other MC will essentially require upgrades, or is more expensive points-wise out of the box. The harpy comes closest, but should still always be fielded with TL venom cannons, and that makes it slightly more expensive, and while I love it, it isn't as tough and resilient or smashy as the carnifex. Tervigons should always be given a psyker power and at least toxin sacs. Hive Tyrants start out more expensive and then really should be given more kit beyond that. Mawlocs are slightly more expensive and, while useful, aren't as all-around-useful as the carnifex (they're really more of a 1-trick pony). Trygons are admittedly very cool and flexible, but they're pricier, they can't quite cut it against land raiders (which is common enough to count), and it is impossible to give them cover saves so -- in my experience, anyway -- they much more easily killed at range than carnifexes are. By contrast, it is very easy to give carnifexes cover saves. And finally, Tyrannofexes are so completely different that there is nothing to compare it to. They're useful, but don't even come close to fulfilling the same functionality on the battlefield ... not to mention their extreme expense.
So, in the context of the 5e Tyranids codex and only that codex, the carnifex is absolutely fairly priced and useful. It's your bargain-basement MC that can do anything you ask of it. It's the jack-of-all-trades that can be efficiently kitted out for anything you desire. It's perfect out-of-the-box, and even heavily upgraded won't cost you more than a Trygon, which is what most people seem convinced is what you should be comparing it to.
I'm saying the carnifex and the trygon -- like the carnifex and any other MC -- can't be compared like apples to apples. They're apples and oranges. And carnifexes absolutely have a place in Tyranid armies. Whether or not you use them is entirely a matter of taste, not necessity, not because the carnifex is overcosted, not because the carnifex sucks.
I always go to battle with at least two of them and I've been very pleased with their performance. People who dismiss the carnifex do so without understanding the bigger picture of the entire Tyranids army list.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
i always try to fit at least one carni in any list im playing and my current favorite tactic it to put a carni with brainlech worms and bioplasma in a mycetic spore with either barbed strangler or twin linked deathspitters and current tactic is suicide mission by dropping right on top where ever the enemy is thickest and ive used it with huge success. he rarely dies too but that's probably just my own good fortune.