How to: Win against Orks - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Enjoi_Tyranids's Avatar
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    How to: Win against Orks

    Hi, I've had a friend who just started playing 40k and picked up a few black reach boxes so, he started Orks. Needless to saying getting beaten by a brand new player...repeatedly has been pretty embarrassing. I felt like basically every factor went badly: bad work as a general, bad dice roles, and a bad list so, I decided it was about time I get some advice on how to play 5th edition Tyranids specifically against Ork.

    He runs basically a horde foot list. At the moment we are only playing 1000points because that is what he can run, but here is an overview of his list:

    Big Mek Shokk Attack Gun
    2x 20 Boy Squads w/Powerklaw nobs.
    Nob Squad 8ish (Usually running with a warboss w/powerklaw)
    Lootas 8ish
    Deff Koptas 4

    I don't think his list is my problem, but I've never really had to deal with a horde army that in some ways is better in close combat than I am.

    What are some general units, group of different units, or strategies you use to counter shoota/boyz squads with a powerklaw nob?


    Here is my next list I plan on using which could definitely change or use changes:

    HQ
    Tyranid Prime
    Scything Talons,Rending Claws

    80

    (I am considering making the Venom Cannon Warrior another Prime that I could possibly attach to another large squad to keep him safe, what do you think of this?)

    Troops
    Tyranid Warriors (5)
    Deathspitters, Venom Cannon

    185

    Termagant (20 )
    Toxin Sacs

    120

    Termagant (19)
    Toxin Sacs

    114

    Hormagaunt (20 )
    Toxin Sacs

    160

    Genestealers (12)

    168

    Genestealers (12)

    168

    995 total

    So general Ork strategies and comments on the list are much appreciated, thanks.


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  3. #2
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    Bonesabres are never a bad idea, and also, try to focus on anti-infantry over anything else. You want to harrass and slaughter as many orks as possible before getting in close combat with them. furthermore, a Carnifex would be good, since it would be very hard to hurt. You are running a very troop heavy list, so maybe try to make it a little more godzilla

  4. #3
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    I'm not sure what is the difficulty you are having. Your list looks solid enough.

    I think mostly you need to practice the application of force. Boyz are better than gaunts.. in hth.. shooting is about even.. Stealers can't shoot but are FAR better than anything else in hth usually. Being able to outflank/infiltrate should be able to deal with lootas. Your Warriors aren't worse than and can be better than Nobs.

    Any specific ways he is beating you? If you take a bit of practice so you get to charge more than being charged you should be winning the combats as often as not with your gaunts, and stealers should destroy anything in that list if they get to hth. Maybe better screening to give better saves to the units (stealers) you want to protect?

    Not sure how specifically you are 'falling down' but it's not your army selection vs his.

    MOAR GAMES!!! I think you may just need to beat the learning curve.. every army is different.. a few dozen games should clear that up!

    -Dragons

  5. #4
    Senior Member Enjoi_Tyranids's Avatar
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    yes, I'm fighting that learning curve right now. My earlier list was made 3/4 up of MC's which in retrospect was a bad idea. (Tyrant w/2x Devourers, Old One Eye..., and Tyrgon Prime). I could replace a Genestealer squad with a Carnifex with adrenal glands would this be a good idea?

    The thing I'm worried about with Genestealers or Carnifex is even after I get my attacks will I have killed enough boyz? This is less of a problem with the genestealers as their main goal with be killing the lootas and Big Mek and stealing objectives or joining assaults with others, but when I didn't have troops to support the MC's they just get overwhelmed.

    I felt like that was the problem with my last list, but I hoped to have remedied that with this list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enjoi_Tyranids View Post
    The thing I'm worried about with Genestealers or Carnifex is even after I get my attacks will I have killed enough boyz? This is less of a problem with the genestealers as their main goal with be killing the lootas and Big Mek and stealing objectives or joining assaults with others, but when I didn't have troops to support the MC's they just get overwhelmed.

    I felt like that was the problem with my last list, but I hoped to have remedied that with this list.
    The ONLY reason to add a Carnifex (and bare bones too.. not the 'GODFEX') is to deal with vehicles. If your opponant isn't fond of them then don't bother. Genestealers will kill 5 times as many infantry (point per point) if you can screen them and get them into hth.

    With the list you gave us of likely options your opponant has you don't need a Carni.. build one for later, larger games.. but at 1000 points against an infantry list? He's a liability IMHO.

    -Dragons

  7. #6
    Senior Member TamCoan's Avatar
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    Don't forget to sucker him into CC on your terms with a disposable gaunt unit. If you can force him to charge you where you have the option to multi counter-charge, you're half way there. Especially if you can pull him out so he's fighting on a flank with no backup.

    Use cover, try to get charged while in cover and avoid attacking him into cover. If you can attack first you should win most combats.

  8. #7
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Orks' big problem is the same as Tyranids: Fearless wounds in lost assaults.

    In general, there is absolutely no reason for 'nids to lose to Orks. Tyranids should be kicking the crap out of them all over the field.

    Looking the lists over, I find myself wondering if the deffkoptas are what is causing you the most grief. Your army doesn't have any ability to counter those things. They're faster, they can rip apart li'l infantry quite easily, and they have a surprising amount of dakka, too. And you don't have any way to shoot them down.

    And I'm sure the Lootas are getting at least 3 turns of free shots at you, too.

    Your current 'nids list is not balanced. It is only capable of beating up weak infantry, it won't even go toe-to-toe against marginally superior assault units. What you need is more resilience -- because without any shooting, you clearly don't have enough to survive the amount of shooting that even Orks can send your way if they choose -- and either A LOT more speed (difficult to obtain) or some shooting yourself.

    This latter point is very important because you need to distribute your threats around. Right now, your army list presents totally obvious threats that are easily identified. Since prioritizing is so easy, and since Tyranids in general are relatively slow and squishy ... well, your odds of success aren't that great because an opponent can just pick your army apart from one turn to the next, from most dangerous to least dangerous.

    Finally, you are depending too strongly on termagants to be assault units. You should never waste points on them that way. Termagants are expendables only. They can be dangerous, but the cheap, affordable, and effective way to do that is through Tervigons.

    If it were me, I'd try something like the following...

    HQ
    [210 pts] Hive Tyrant, brainleech devourers, heavy venom cannon

    Elite
    [100 pts] 2 Hive Guard
    [100 pts] 2 Hive Guard

    Troop
    [120 pts] 3 Warriors, 3x rending claws, 2x devourers, 1x venom cannon
    [50 pts] 10 Termagants
    [195 pts] Tervigon, catalyst, toxin sacs, adrenal glands
    [112 pts] 14 Hormagaunts, toxin sacs
    [112 pts] 14 Hormagaunts, toxin sacs

    Total: 999 pts

    Now you've got some shooting to remove the Orks' speed and to suppress Lootas. You've also got some MCs to draw heavy fire. This list will force any opponent to think hard about what to eliminate first. The Tyrant and hive guard? Nobody wants to get hit by your Warriors and gaunts. The Tervigon to stop the swarm? What's going to shoot at your Tyrant and Hive Guard, then? Does your opponent send Rokkits into Warriors to insta-kill them (though they should be given cover saves, at least, of course, if not Feel No Pain as well when appropriate) or into the MCs?

    Choices, choices. This is how Tyranids must be run to be effective.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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    Hehe... wait till you see a mech ork... Burna's in battlewagons are .... burny...

    I'd run two warrior broods with barbed stranglers against that list... Then a giant brood of horma's to catch the boyz before the wagggh...

  10. #9
    Senior Member Enjoi_Tyranids's Avatar
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    The Deff Koptas have Twin-Linked rokkits I should mention. When I had Monstrous Creatures In the list he was rolling pretty good for them averaging about 3 wounds each turn of shooting against MC's.

    I'll try to construct a list around your suggestions with some adaptations due to my own model limitations.

    [200-210] The Hive Tyrant (I have one w/2x TL-Devourers, and the other I took his arms off and haven't replaced them yet). The New venom cannon seems enticing can anyone describe how well it has worked for them?

    [100] 2 Hive Guard
    [120] 2 Zoanthropes

    [120] The Warriors 3 (I have Deathspitters instead of devourers and scything talons instead of rending claws. If I had the means I would definitely pick up more warriors though)
    [55] 11 Termagants
    [195] Tervigon, Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands (I plan to just substitute a carnifex at this point as I haven't converted one yet.)
    [104 pts] 13 Hormagaunts, toxin sacs
    [104 pts] 13 Hormagaunts, toxin sacs

    999pts

    Would this still work or are the changes irreconcilable?

    right now I'm kind of apprehensive as to what to do with the Monstrous Creatures I have. I have 2 4e carnifexes with the arms removed and 2 3e carnifexes with the arms removed and the 3e tyrant I mentioned above.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Enjoi_Tyranids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BooGs View Post
    Hehe... wait till you see a mech ork... Burna's in battlewagons are .... burny...

    I'd run two warrior broods with barbed stranglers against that list... Then a giant brood of horma's to catch the boyz before the wagggh...
    heh ya flamer templates aren't nice. I've always wanted warriors with barbed stranglers, but currently have no loose warriors, What would you think of Changing 1-2 of the Carnifexes to have stranglethorn, or would Venom Cannons be a better choice?

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