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I play a guard player regularly who always takes a series of tanks and chimeras and sits them behind lots of imperial guard troops with their rear armour against the rear table edge.
The Chimera's are full of psyker battle squads or vets with a primaris psyker that destroy my boyz before they even get close. There is also a Hydra hellhound that being fast gets to move 12" and shoot its template weapon at an additional 12" range.
I can't get my kommandos or deffkoptas into combat with the tanks because the so called blob squads are always surrounding them and even when I do he exploits the rules by moving his chimeras and tanks a minimum of 1" forwards and backwards every turn so if I do manage to get my units into combat he claims the benefit of units assaulting tanks at combat speed. My deffkoptas have had limited success at Turbo scouting then shooting at range with TLR shots but their BS is so poor that relying on this unit for that is seldom enough. And my opponent knowing this ensures that they very rarely survive past turn 3.
I have been decimated by him three times. Admittedly I have been unlucky and always had to take second turn but I can't out shoot him and by the end of turn two I have usually lost my transports and/or my 30 strong boys are just about into combat.
He knows that lootas and transports are the key threats to his army so he targets them first and even with KFF I'm still losing some if not all of my transports early.
Am I missing something in our codex that can help?
Are you playing a Mech army? Sounds like it. If so, you need to bull rush with your aggressive units, covered by a KFF, and accept your losses. Block any LoS you can with terrain, don't let him play a static gunline with it if possible.
Your Kopters are probably better off Outflanking with Rokkits and nuking Chimeras, AV10 is soft. Lootas are one of your big ticket units, make sure they're at MAX range and spread out to dodge templates. Screen them with grots or always have a 4+ cover for them naturally.
By blobbing his units there's a few things you can do. If you can, shoot them. Guards Ld is so so and without a Banner, not to hard to make a few units flee. Than his tanks are open for assault. Even better, shoot him and make him take off a few models. Jump your squad out, use the hole to multi-charge a tank and a squad. The PK can handle a tank while you eat a unit. If it's a Chimera, hit the back so your force and emergency disembark, saving you costly reprisal. Make sure to use his own tanks against him as well. If it can't move, it's most likely in his way for his own LoS. A few assault players do this to the local static IG guy by rolling hard up a flank, works very well.
Hope that helps a bit.
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tbh I have tried mech, footslogging and mixed.
Who gets first turn seems to me to be so critical to facing a static guard player. This guy will actually only move his hellhound in his movement phase. EVERYTHING stands still and fires. If guard player goes first he will just target my lootas and transports. The Kff helps but with all his tanks simply standing still I get a LOT of firepower and at that rate the KFF will only go so far.
Also if you lose first turn against a static guard player like this, then any outflanking units have a 50/50 chance of coming onto the board after your army has taken two turns of successive fire. By this stage the game seems decided. so it often works out better to turbo scout the deffkoptas allowing them to go for chimeras.
If I get first turn then the lootas, kans and deffkoptas can do some damage mitigating some of the firepower that I will face.
Also with the russ sitting on the table edge with blob squad protection. I can do absolutely nothing about it.
Last edited by dafridge; May 3rd, 2010 at 14:02.
Okay, two things.
I go on and on about 30 sluggas with a PK nob. Now I'm also not a fan of spamming the same units in a list, but this is the only unit that I take TWO of....in your case, consider six. Spread them out in DEPTH and run them every turn.
Second, if your friend is no fun to play, tell him. Remind him that's it's a hobby and you're not there for his amusement. Powergaming is a sure way to turn people off. But don't be a git if you just don't like losing because the worst thing that happens is your models go back into the box.
Something else I've also said is that Lootas suck. It could be that the boyz are so good that it only appears the Lootas suck in comparison, but I think Loota mobs are a waste when you can put more boyz, kans, nobz and other things on the table. You want to get across the table fast and Lootas are the opposite of that - like you said, you can't outshoot him.
Battle wagons and Rockits lots and lots of rockits multi lasers cant hurt the front of a BW so he has to move to hurt you witch means he will hve to spread out to hurt you also Burnas in a BW will destroy any IG unit they touch Also you want to avoid Foot slogging armys VS IG when they are useing the psyker battle squad.
First, don't knock yourself. What your describing is a variation of an infamous IG list known as the 'Leafblower', and it's considered by many to be the most dangerous list out there right now.
Lootas are fantastic, especially against guard players. The trick I like pulling is lining them up against your own table edge, so their backs are literally touching it. This way, if they shoot blasts at them that scatter, it's really easy for the blast to scatter off the board. Big gunz kannons and outflanking deffkoptas/kommandos also work well, especially if Snikkrot's along with.
I always go at least partially mechanized, and the best strategy I've found against IG is to take the fight to them as quickly as possible. Keep the vehicles within range of a KFF in order to obscure them, and simultaneously leap down their throats, while firing away with your lootas. Basically, you need to start attacking right away, forcing him to choose what to target and what to ignore.
Another good asset are Killa Kans, as long as they aren't the only vehicles in the list, and draw too much fire. What makes them good is if they assault the blob, the guard are pretty much screwed, because nothing in the blob can harm them effectively.
Finally, I agree with Cossack on the sportsmanship. Tell him that it's no fun to play against that list, and ask him to play a slightly different one. Perhaps veterans in chimeras, as more of a mobile mechanized force, instead of a gunline?
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Well thanks for the input guys.
The problem with lootas is that they die so easily and then they run so easily. Against this guy who is well aware of their impact I generally only have them for one turn if that. The question I'm asking myself is, are they worth the cost considering he targets them so quickly. I still haven't made up my mind about lootas but i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I currently run them in two squads of 9. That leaves only one elites slot and since the single most valuable unit in my army against him is the nob bikerz I find it hard to justify kommandos.
I am not a fan of outflank because IF they come in on Turn 2 against this type of army the best they can do is go for the roving hellhound or shoot and charge a bob squad since other vehicles are protected! And if I have to wait til turn three the battles pretty much over against an army like that.
here's a fun idea. 3 Battlewagons with grots inside equipped with killkannons and 4 Big shootas. At least they'd take care of the blob squads.
I am yet to try the full iron curtain as I don't have killa kans but i'm getting there so hopefully thats the strategy that will win it for me. I'm contemplating running two Big Meks with Kff for a mixed strategy with one attached to a 30 strong slugga squad that runs behind the Kans while the other goes forth with my 2 trukks and battlewagon.
Last edited by dafridge; May 3rd, 2010 at 16:56.
Why not try out flanking with larger units of deff coptas and do something he wont expect charge his Blobs of infintry he is going to be hard pressed to take them down being Str3 vs To5 and this could help open up vehicals for your kammandoes when they come on. you could also not take rockits on the coptas and just go with the big shootas shooting the heck out of a unit then assulting it witch un bubble wraps his tanks this may throw him off his game as im shure he is not used to things being in his face so fast.
Well thee deffkoptas are the only ones that have worked for me so far. I just run three fast attack slots of 1 each with TLR. They always turbo boost scout move then take shots at the chimeras. Usually managing to penetrate on at least one shot. (someone should really teach orks how to aim)
Charging the blob squads isn't even an option yet since my transports never make it!!!