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I was looking through the codex the other day and I made a potentially game changing realization about Ranger Long Rifles. As far as I had been using the rangers (or pathfinders) I had been giving them the regular 6+/5+ AP1 shot on the rolls to hit. However I had neglected to realize that the rifles were also rending. I now see that not only do the rangers have a chance to make their shots more powerful in the to-hit-roll but also in the to-wound-roll. Am I the only one who overlooked this? Are Rangers more viable than I have come to believe? With guide and doom they begin to become a very strong unit.
What do you guys think?
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Were does it say they are rending? As far as i know they just count as snipers which is an auto wound on 4+. They still get thier armor save (unless you rolled that 5+ to hit).
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The Ranger Long Rifle is listed as a sniper. Under the Sniper section on pg. 31 of the rule book Snipers are rending, "Sniper hits wound on a roll or 4+, regardless of the victim's toughness. In addition, all sniper weapons are also rending and pinning weapons (see above)." (pg.31)
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Tiki is right:
With a Pathfinders Long Rifle, your To-Hit of a 5 or a 6 counts as AP1.
In addition to the shot wounding on a 4+, on a 6+ the shot is rending.
If the shot wounds, it causes a pinning check.
So yes, pathfinders and rangers are badass (and quite possibly the best snipers in the game.), and also a BIG reason why Pathfinders and Rangers are brought to games, when other army snipers almost never are (though a pathfinders 2+ cover save helps quite a bit).
Here's a question though: Rending counts as AP2. If you roll a 6 to hit, the shot is AP1. You roll to wound that shot, and also roll a 6.
Is your shot AP1, +1d3 for armour penetration? Or is it AP2 with 1d3 for armour penetration? (Since Rending makes the shot AP2, but the 6 to hit makes it AP1)
I'm inclined to believe it makes the shot AP2, but...who knows.
Yes I am pretty sure most people already realised this.
They still aren't worth their cost however. It would be hard to justify their cost even if they where AP1 all the time really, with a single shot, 2/3 chance to hit, 1/2 chance to wound and then 50% of the time allowing a save, and cover saves always being an issue.
They can be a good unit for hiding somewhere in cover, but all it takes is a deepstriking or drop poding flamer to put an extremely ugly end to their day.
They can cause pinning however, and do have some uses, but they are still rather lacklustre. Its probably largely due to their cost to effectiveness ratio, and if they where cheaper people would feild more for some effective firepower, but apart from the fact that so many people play mech and they just don't fit the army style they are still lacking.
There used to be several Alaitoc players in one of my nearest GWS, who would always be found stomping people, since the new ruleset and codex however the army just isn't the same.
The one truly amazing thing about them is just how good the models are. I honestly rate them as some of the best ever produced, but I do love eldar so I'm biased.
I think they are worth their cost. I'm new, so there's that, but, they are the one troop choice that I always take. With the cover save, regardless of the pathfinder upgrade, they can cause some damage. The last game I played they caused 2 wounds on The Great Unclean One. Granted this was the most they had ever done, but I always take them. If nothing else they draw fire from my opponents. If you're not playing super competitive matches, I think they are worth their points.
Indeed, Ap1 on a 5+ to hit and ap2 on a 6 to wound. They're decent, tho the ap2 overrides teh ap1 which is silly imo, but hey.
Units of pathfinders have been hit and miss for me tho. In one game they'll pin a squad of 10 vanguard for 2 turns, in another they'll do absolutely nothing and flop dead to some space wolf scouts. All in all (and given their cost) I'd rather take DAs in a Wave Serpent.
Are you guys sure AP1 is over written? I feel like it just become AP1 AP2, just like having 2 saves. The best one is used.
The AP2 is applied after the AP1, so sadly if you roll a 6 to hit and a 6 to wound you end up with an AP2 hit.
Utterly sucks for rending vehicles as the AP1 would have been great to have, sadly you can't get it.
Pathfinders are often overlooked, they add +1 to the chance of rending, and get cover saves of +2, so that is usually 2+, the only darned snipers in the game that can actually shoot reasonably straight, apart from Vindicare assassins of course. But hey, for their cost they are seriously worth it. I'd love 5 more to add to the 5 I own. On top of that, they count as troops, so can sit on an objective to the rear of your army and pick off disgusting ammounts of enemy troops.