XV25 Stealth teams - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Junior Member DemoMarine's Avatar
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    XV25 Stealth teams

    Is it viable to put a Fusion blaster on a 3 man stealth team for vehicle hunting?

    And how do people use stealth teams?

    - Dimitri





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    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemoMarine View Post
    Is it viable to put a Fusion blaster on a 3 man stealth team for vehicle hunting?
    92 pts for a single BS 3 meltagun shot is the opposite of viable. A stealth field is no protection at all at 12" and less, and 3 li'l 3+ save models are not going to survive that close in to any viable target.

    184 pts for 2 BS 3 meltaguns is just as bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by DemoMarine
    And how do people use stealth teams?
    By and large we don't anymore. Crisis suits are the only useful Elite option for all-comer's army lists. They're the only place you can buy reliable high-strength/low-AP weaponry. Stealths are pure anti-infantry units, and everything in the Tau arsenal is Str 5 or better. Which is to say, anti-infantry is everywhere in the army list. But there are only so many slots available to give you any ability to tackle enemy units that aren't strictly infantry.

    Stealths really don't have a place anymore.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number6 View Post
    Stealths really don't have a place anymore.
    Worse than any other army out there, the Tau veterans, forums and competitive lists have become streamlined towards the metagame. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it kills variety, and produces a mentality that one or two things are better than every other alternative. I don't see things that way.

    Stealth Suits definitely have a place in a Tau list if you want them to. The anti-infantry capability is nice; it's easier to maneuver a smaller squad with more shots than it is a larger squad (say, Fire Warriors) with fewer shots; their stealth fields allow them to creep up close to the enemy; etc.

    My favourite use for a Stealth Suit squad is as a markerlight delivery system. I hate putting markerlights in Fire Warrior squads; I hate how static Pathfinders tend to be. The Stealth Suits are mobile, well protected (higher armour save, stealth fields), and have the option to be more accurate using targeting arrays.

    I really dislike the tendency of Tau players to say "don't do this, do this, it's the only good way" or that units don't have a place anymore; while it is true for some in a competitive environment, there still remains no one "true" way to do things.

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    Senior Member Gedderz's Avatar
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    Personally i don’t think XV25’s work with fusion guns, too short range and expensive for what you get.

    My thoughts on why stealth’s have gone is simple they fill a similar role to FW's, i.e. infantry killing. In 5th ed troops are lot more important therefore a unit to kill infantry might as well also be scoring.

    XV25’s can still be used effectively but I would argue only as anti infantry. Supported by marker lights (not on XV25’s from else where) a unit if 6 XV25’s can really get a lot of shots out and hit. When used on high terrain boards there even better as they can advance hidden. In 5th ed i have found XV25’s to be a good supporting unit for objectives (mainly defending, as there too slow to go far on the attack).
    "Should take you a while though because of your sloth like pace"
    Click here and watch Gedderz try and cross the road

  6. #5
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    Worse than any other army out there, the Tau veterans, forums and competitive lists have become streamlined towards the metagame. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it kills variety, and produces a mentality that one or two things are better than every other alternative.
    [...]
    I really dislike the tendency of Tau players to say "don't do this, do this, it's the only good way" or that units don't have a place anymore; while it is true for some in a competitive environment, there still remains no one "true" way to do things.
    "Metagame" has nothing to do with it. It's all "game".

    The core game rules themselves decide what is and isn't good.

    By and large, 5th edition and the 5th edition codexes have made mechanized or partially-mechanized armies the strongest armies to play. The biggest reasons for this are:

    1. True line of sight makes infantry extremely vulnerable. Infantry can be targeted almost all the time. 4+ cover saves do not adequately compensate for the actual, real protection available under the previous game edition's abstract terrain rules.

    2. It is significantly more difficult to damage vehicles under 5th edition than 4th edition. In previous game editions, vehicles were too easy to kill, and because infantry was very hard to kill, infantry-based armies were king. The reverse is now true.

    3. Every 5th edition codex has reduced the points cost of vehicles significantly. IG used to have to pay upwards of 90 pts for a Chimera. Now they just 55 pts for one that includes smoke. Rhinos used to be 53 pts with smoke, now they're just 35 pts. Mainline battle tank points costs have also been significantly cut while their capabilities have been increased. Can anyone say "Fast" (e.g., BA) or "Lumbering Behemoth" (e.g., IG)?

    To summarize: infantry are weaker than ever, vehicles are stronger and more capable than ever, and vehicles have also been points costed to be attractive.

    Mech is king, and king for a reason. That reason being: GW says mech is king. And where mech is king, there is no place for stealth suits. Tau aren't Imperials or Tyranids where various forms of anti-armour can be mixed with the usual anti-infantry in every single force organization slot. All Tau has are their heavy support options, HQ commanders, and Elite crisis suits. That's it. Under that reality, it makes no sense whatsoever to waste any Elite slots on more anti-infantry since all the existing Tau HQs, Elites, and Heavy can also dual-purpose as anti-infantry even if primarily purchased for anti-armour ... and every other force org slot can fulfill anti-infantry duty already.
    Last edited by number6; June 7th, 2010 at 20:26.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

  7. #6
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    If you want to use them as "enemy's back line outflankers" then yes, they can be good fun. The Fusion Blaster can be put on the Team Leader, along with a hard-wired target lock, for that possible opportunity you might get to nuke a tank. However, the BS is the problem here because you've a 50-50 chance of hitting your target in the first place.

    The burst cannon option is anti-infantry, agreed. However, given the way that Outflanking allows you to enter play on the side which the dice permit, you *could* find yourself sitting nicely behind a vehicle's rear armour, so multiple Str5 shots can cause mayhem there.

    As Number6 pointed out: taking a Stealth Team does reduce the Elites slots by one, and the XV8s have better firepower strength available to them. I do agree with him, but I also feel that trying out something "to see how it goes" can be both challenging and good fun. It's also a learning experience: 'so the Stealths didn't perform well this time, so what could I do to improve them next time?' sort of thing. It can also be a "think outside the box" type of thing too; "yeah, I normally play with shedloads of XV8s, but let's try something different for a change. It may not be the ideal way to win a game, but at least it'll be a variation on a theme" type of attitude. I've tried an army list out with NO XV8s in it whatsoever and it was a very much bigger challenge since I was relying on different tactics and units to pull off the same tricks as the standard XV8 army. Yes, I lost - but only because it had been the first experience of doing something like this. And I was playing against IG.....

    So those folks who say "nope, this is the only way to play Tau" are kinda right, if you want to have a list which has stood the test of time regarding its incorporated units. If you want to try something different, then who can tell you not to? The result might be a loss, it may be a hard game to win, but you know what? You'll have enjoyed the challenge.

    E.
    "Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"

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