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so i was toying around with an idea:
10 storm guardians with 2x fusion guns
with fuegan and an autarch with fusion gun and power weapon tagging along
mounted in a wave serpent with EML and shruiken cannon
really expensive unit obviously, but seems like it could be pretty devastating in assault.
whats everyone think?
It's really not an impressive assault unit, especially considering it's points. Storm Guardians work best as a scoring flamer/melta delivery system, they're only slightly better in CC than a guardsman. Even with a power weapon, the autarch is still only S3 and going to kill a marine on the charge. Fuegan's not bad, but as with all Phoenix Lords, he's not worth his points, and will only kill 2 marines on the charge. For nearly 400pts, you've got a CC unit that'll be lucky to kill 5 marines on the charge.
what about doing the same thing with a large banshee unit?
like 10+ fuegan+autarch in a wave serpent?
seems like the melta weapons in a unit like that would be pretty nasty
fuegan can't join a unit of banshees because he is the PL of the firedragons. You could go for a couple of autarchs with fusion guns but they generally under perform compared to cost. How about yriel? I admit he only gets str 9 against vehicles so he isn't as good there as a fusion gun but he can join up with any unit and his killing power is fairly good for his cost, plus he can split off and take out a unit solo with his eye. I generally work on getting a tank busting unit next to a vehicle that has a unit I want my CC specialists to assault and hope that the tank busters can get the job done. Or just pepper the vehicle with the higher strength guns mounted on waveserpents until it dies.
That's a better combination, but you still have the problem of delivering the unit to a valuable target, you can't really do it with transports, or you won't be able to assault, and on foot they will get torn up.
You'd probably be better off sticking Fuegan into a group of Harlequins with 2 Fusion Pistols and a Shadowseer. At least that way the unit is build for footing it and can assault, and is only hampered by its speed. It would however still not be worth its cost.
i'm just trying to find out if any of the phoenix lords are viable, really. fuegan seems really awesome, but just dumping him in a unit of fire dragons seems like a waste, muegan ra seems awesome too, but not sure if he's worth his points.
karandas seems like he'd make a unit of scorpions really nasty. but again, he's expensive, and uses up a valuable HQ
honestly i can't see taking any of them outside of apoc games
Last edited by Pigeons; June 11th, 2010 at 17:25.
First, about my above post, I forgot about the Autarch, one with a Fusion Gun is probably a lot better than spending the points for Fuegan.
Second, no, Phoenix Lords are not competitive choices, not in any situation. But they are fluffy and fun, and should only be used in Apocalypse games where you don't have to worry about HQ-slots in the FOC.
If I would take any I would probably take Karandras and Maugan Ra, possibly Jain Zar also, the rest don't seem that great to me. Karandras can infiltrate 12" away from enemies, move, fleet and assault in the first turn, and can easily wipe out an entire unit of marines on his own (lousily placed devastators anyone?). Maugan Ra has high S power weapon attacks at a high Initiative, and can do some damage when shooting, also his model is amazing looking. Jain Zar is a nice little monster in assaults against MEQ, not worth her cost naturally, but still effective.
yeah i love the idea of karandras in a unit of scorpions, assualting the opponents home objective.
and i'm a bit sketchy on the rules, but if the objective is say a ruined building, the scorps would get their stealth cover save while assualting it right?
I have had limited success with fuegan starting out in a firedragon unit inside a waveserpent then splitting off to attack a seperate target from the other dragons. If you can get him into combat with a unit that doesn't have power weapons he is really hard to kill, unfortunately most armies seem to be able to give a powerweapon or fist to just about every unit. Sticking PLs in a harlie unit is probably the best way to try and use them. Maugen Ra along side a deathjester can give the unit a decent amount of shooting and it packs a good CC punch. fuegan karandras and jainzar all would feel at home meleeing with harlies also. I have seen the idea floated around of putting Maugen Ra in a pathfinder unit as he has a similar range and can rend so him shooting at the same target makes some sense and he works as a deterant when stuff moves close to clear the pathfinders out of cover but never tried this as it seemed to expensive and pathfinders never work out well for me. In the end most people simply have given up on the PLs they are too expensive, have no inv save ( except the most expensive one ) and don't do enough for the high cost.
Yeah, if you want straight up MEQ killing power, Banshees and Yriel are where it's at. A vanilla squad of Banshees on the charge should kill 5 marines, and Yriel should kill 2 or 3 of his own.