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Hi guys. I normally play a SM bike, speeder and vindicator army. Now that i've finally painted them all rather than expanding or trying different builds with SM i decided i'd much rather try to come up with a fast army using a different codex. Now since i've got a load of old ork bits and pieces from 2nd and some bikes and buggies from gorka morka i figured it was time to give my boyz a return to the front line. I tend to play stand offish using speed to strike at what i want when i want often going after one flank with my whole army. Will this work with orks or do i need to be more aggressive.
I'm thinking of Wazdakka to get bikes as troops. Is he woorth his points, is he really usefull or just a bullet you need to bite to get bikers as troops. Admittedly his dakkakannon looks fairly effective.
The bikes seem to be able to handle themselves in combat especially nob bikers as well as relatively decent shooting. What size unit is best, i worry about leadership but 12 bikers seems far too unwieldly on the table. Are power klaws a must for armour or can rokkits do enough. I see a lot of lists with bosspoles but i don't like the idea of killing expensive bikers or is this just a change of mindset i need?
Buggies or deffkoptas? Which one in your experience is better to mount the rokkits on. It seems to me rokkits are a must for AV purposes and twin linked on both these units gives a chance of hitting. Are the rokkits better on buggies to keep the longer range anti infantry on the kopters.
I don't really want anything that can't move 12" in my army. Will this restrict the competiveness? I don't feel the need to win every game aslong as i have a chance to win if i play well enough. I don't really worry about objective sitting as with turbo boost i should be able to contest/claim objectives in the end game.
Any advice or pointers in the right direction for further information would be much appreciated.
No experience with Wazdakka, he seems not bad on paper. I'd say you need to be aggressive though, you won't have a lot of meaningful shooting so deployment will be key, as will picking the right targets.
Bosspoles are kind of a must have. Would you take a 50% chance to kill a Biker, or would you rather be forced to run and lose the whole unit? It's not pretty but it's better than fleeing.
Depends on your army for Buggies or Kopters. If you go 100% Bikes, use Kopters. If you mix in some armored elements, maybe a Battlewagon or two, use Buggies. You can block LoS to them and use a Big Mek to give them a 4+ cover against shooting, which is amazing.
Having nothing that cannot go 12" will not restrict your competitiveness but it will take away some useful units like Lootas. I'd mix between Bikes and Battlewagons. Battlewagons will let you give cover to smaller vehicles and have some larger Mobs, as well as blocking LoS where you want. Than the Bikes can shoot forward or hide for a few turns instead of always having to shoot forward. It's more flexible and still in theme.
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I'd be interested to know how wazzdakka performs aswell, i've been considering trying him for a while.
About the rokkits i prefer my buggies with skorchas, my opponents tend to fear them so much
Which leaves my koptas with rokkits !
Rokkits and buggies go together, I believe you get more for the points. AV allows for most things to have trouble hitting it (infantry anyways) and they aren't a high priority target (esp with bike gangs everywhere). The issue using defkoptas is you'd be paying for hit and run, an extra 10 points/model over the warbuggy for the same armament. If your going with rokkits... I don't think you were going with hit and run
As for keeping everything mobile, if you have the points, a mobile loota shoot-house is an EXCELLENT thing to watch. (10 Lootas in a battlewagon, and all of them can fire cuz it's open topped, but AV 14) I would recommend a couple squads of trukk boys as well. You DO NOT want to have to claim an objective with 6-12 bikes... kind of a waste, ya know?
As for wazdakka, you might not need him. It would be cheaper for warboss bike, PK, and Bosspole and you can still have a squad of buggies and 2 of bikes. Thats a fair amount of points. Though, if you want 3-4 squads of bikes, you have no choice but to take him. He dosen't fair poorly, he is a decent model. Just don't remember how much you paid for him when he get's killed, thats how i get through all my games haha.
As for unit size for bikes, nothing is scarier to an enemy than 3 squads of 12, but points wise, thats 750 base. Add in some upgrades and your talking about 850 for 36 models. That dosent fly with orks. I wouldn't go any smaller than 6, and make sure you have a bosspole; but as with all things orky, the more the merrier.
Hope you got an idea or two from above. Good luck let us know what you decide!
Im going to do something not many ork players will do and reccomend deffkoptas. The scout move is nice and outflanking with them has saved my butt a number of times (they are excellent basilisk hunters) So for me I find them worth it when im playing mechanized armies. Ive never used warbuggies and am not sure if they have the scout rule or not, but if they do I could see them being very useful.
You still need some scoring units along for the ride. Your bikes can cover a lot of ground, but it's not many models for the point value, and as you've said, their leadership can be a real problem. Maybe a couple units of boyz in trukks? Heck, if you're low on points, grots in a looted wagon can keep up with the pace (usually) and sit on an objective.
You definitely want to have a klaw and bosspole in as many units as possible. If you've got that klaw, even if the rest of the biker mob gets dropped, the nob is still a nasty threat to tanks... and 18" range means your opponent will have to keep those tanks moving or risk having your nob chop them up in CC. With the bosspole, you're considerably more likely to survive losing 2, 3 bikers without having the whole unit break.
Thanks for your advice guys it's always greatly appreciated. I tried a couple of small games proxying the bikes and i found that units of 12 while having better ld were just too unwieldly. It's just too difficult to keep them safe and usefull. Though they were far better in combat than i expected. With this in mind and having read and reread your comments and other threads i feel it's time to post a list and get it taken apart a few times. Things have changed a little since the days when your trukk would hold as many orks as could balance on it.
here is my List
As far as Wazdakka i ran him with a biker mob but ended up breaking him off to go tank hunting for a while. Turbo boosting to get in range of av and then still getting to fire with a cover save is pretty effective especially when you factor in his toughness. Having bikes as troops reaslly helped aswel,l as turbo boosting for objectives late on is very much in my play style.
I'm tempted by the outflanking rokkit koptas but i'd rather have them on taking on av from turn 1.