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So we were playing a game of spearhead the other day, and my friend brought the baneblade variant that has the destroyer strength gun on it. After targeting my wave serpent and clipping my wraithlord, a discussion arose. Is D a higher strength then 8? My argument was that it was the equivalent of a Str. 14 hit (meaning it will auto-pen everything it touches). He said it goes right to the chart, bypassing the armor pen roll altogether. for the sake of the game i conceded the point, but I'm still curious one way or the other. Anyone have any clarification on this point?
I don't think the Wave Serpent field would negate D down to S8 as D is not really a strength value but a characteristic (Destroyer). Destroyer weapons do not need to roll for armor penetration anyway, they automatically score a penetrating hit.
As always, the interpretation is up to the players, but as an Eldar player that loves Wave Serpents, I would rule that the field has no effect on D weapons. After all they are designed to take down Titans. If they can punch through armor and terrain features, a little field shouldn't stop them either.
Oh, and if his baneblade gives you any trouble, get a load of firedragons right next to it, or even better buy an Eldar Scorpion or Cobra super heavy tank.
tried getting dragons up to it, (they were in my outrider formation falcon), but we rolled escalation, so they didnt show up soon enough to help.
as far as scorpion/cobra goes, I haven't seen profiles for either, which would you reccomend(so far I have no superheavies or titans)? was thinking of going with Revenant with pulsars for my first "big scary"...
If you're using super-heavies in non-Apoc play, you should be doing it for the sake of having fun and having a lopsided battle, because super-heavies are absolutely not balanced for regular play, GW's spearhead formation notwithstanding. Anyway, JMichael is right, Destroyer weapons don't have a strength, and they don't roll for penetration, they automatically score a penetrating hit against any vehicle they touch. If you want a little more semblance of balance to that, you guys could rule that the Energy Field negates the +1 bonus destroyers usually get, or something along those lines.
I have the scorpion and it terrifies my opponents. It eats Baneblades for breakfast!
Scorpion has a single twin-linked Pulsar with armor similar to the Falcon grav tank.
The cobra drops a 10" D template, though at shorter range than the Pulsar. This is my next purchase!
For me, the reason I favor the tanks over the gorgeous Revenant Titan is $$ and I prefer the lower profile. Much easier to hide the tanks than the tall elegant titan.
Keep an eye on eBay, you can often find brand new tanks and titans for slightly less than Forgeworld. I bought my Scorpion for $186 (including shipping) as opposed to over $200 from Forgeworld.
Revenants are unbelievably snazzy models, but they have the dubious distinction of being overcosted and underpowered compared to their imperial counterpart, the Warhound. They're not bad by any stretch, but that's something that always rankled with me. I have a Cobra, and there's no single greater feeling than dropping down a 10'' pie plate and going "Everyone under the blast takes an automatic Instant Death wound, no armor no cover, and if you happen to survive take a pinning check at -1. MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!" And it also ignores void shields to boot, which is not quite as good as having the Pular's two shots, it helps make up some of the ground.
...his basis is pretty simple. The D weapon auto-pens everything. So by making it S14, even if you rolled a 1 on your dice, it would still penetrate Av14 vehicles.
I don`t think the shimmer shield would reduce the strength, but that`s his logic.
Last edited by cKerensky; July 1st, 2010 at 17:22.
my argument was exactly that. It specifically states auto penetrates, which would be the same as a str. 14 (how many times have you had a dreadnought charge a vehicle where you hit 2 out of the three, go to figure out what you need to glance/penetrate, and see that 1's will penetrate? In this case do you bother rolling, or just assume you will roll a 1+?)... thats all I was trying to say. I was unsure if "D" could be inferred as a strength value or not. One could say its a variable that always does exactly the amount needed to penetrate on 1's... i.e. its always the same strength as the armor value facing you. No, I am not being ridiculous. It is through speculation such as this that rules are clarified for the general community. If you are just gonna say "you're dumb" and thats it, please dont bother posting on my thread
ok, so you have a basis in your head.. now find a basis in rules.
The Energy Field rules states 'a Strength greater than 8 counts as S8'.. so feel free to demonstrate D > 8 using the actual rules, not using "i've decided it's s14". D is not a numerical value, so it's not >8. D just denotes the use of a special rule set, a rule set which does not mention the strength of the weapon as the strength of the weapon is not important. the rules state it has the effect ithas, and energy field would only come into effect vs an attribute that the D weapon does not have.
your logic is: one part of the sD rules are like s14, so my fields must work.. cos they work on s14.
your wave serpent flies.. so does a chicken.. so anytime your wave serpent is hit by a lascannon it will react in the same way a chicken would.
when you start inventing comparisons which arent in the rules.. the rules start to not mean anything very quickly :p
Just to sum it up again..
D isn't a number, how can it be higher than 8? It may do more damage than 8, but that does not make it higher than 8.
Sorry if i'm being curt, but that you're even trying to argue that position says a lot about you as a player and i'd wouldnt want to go near you with a barge pole.