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My friend who plays Eldar is having a hard time fighting me and the rest of our friends and is talking about quitting because he claims Eldar suck so much. I obviously know this isnt true and that Eldar are one of the better armies out there. I think he might just have a bad list/tactics. So I decided I'd ask for some help from knowledgeable Eldar Players.
Sorry I can't provide an exact army list as I dont play Eldar but in general he runs:
Fire Prism w/holofields SS
Falcon w/holofields SS
Wave Serpent w/ whatever they have
Farseer with doom and fortune and warlocks
5 swooping hawks
5 dire avengers
2 units of ~10 guardians
Is there something that can be made of these units to make a somewhat effective list?
Last time we played he killed a total of 2 plague marines and 1 oblit (mindwar) and I took out his entire army. Similar story when he played my friends wolves and my orks. Against my orks he only killed 11 ork boyz and a nob the whole game. So if anyone can provide some good tactics or a good list with those units it would be very appreciated as I don't want to lose one of the people I play with just because he's playing with a flawed list. Thanks!
Well, if you don't mind some minor proxying I'd say he should try running his Falcon as a second Fire Prism, and his Guardians as Dire Avengers. Also, he could use a second Wave Serpent but doesn't seem to have the models for it, but if he would be allowed to proxy something for a game or two I think he'd be a much happier camper. Normally one would in addition to the things I mentioned above have a Farseer with doom and a group of either Fire Dragons or Howling Banshees in a third Wave Serpent. This with some upgrades should be roughly 1000 points and serves as the base of the majority of Eldar lists that are played today.
10-man squads of Guardians fold like air without an Avatar to make them Fearless, and even then they aren't really that reliable. And Swooping Hawks really do suck, and should not be taken at all.
Having played Eldar for a long time using "the stuff I had" I know how it feels to lose game upon game, but after some purchases (mainly my Wave Serpents) I can safely say that my luck has changed and all those lost games now let me play quite well.
As for tactics, he should keep away until he can safely doom and mass fire on a unit wiping it out completely without fear of retaliation, this should be easy to accomplish since an opponent will be forces to split up his forces to be able to attack/catch all those fast skimmers. If the opponent doesn't split up he should just stay well out of harms way and blast shots from a distance until an opportunity arises that he can exploit. In the late game (last turn basically) he should disembark from the transports on his own objectives and use his skimmers to contest opposing objectives.
A general rule is to keep the mission objectives in mind, I had difficulties doing this for the first few games in 5th edition, but now I find it much easier and it helps a lot when you want to win.
I don't use Guardians at all. And you'll find that few do (although Storm Guardians with 3x flamers....). But 3-4 squads of Dire Avengers would be quite devastating (proxy the guardians for now as Inian suggested).
He will need to get/proxy some aspect warriors. I highly suggest proxying before spending the $$ on models. Eldar can be one of the deadliest armies, but they are also a bit tricky to use. I find we are best at hit and run tactics, using our fast tanks/transports to flank-kill a bunch of stuff, then embark and zoom out of retaliation range.
Have him try using the Farseer as Eldrad. He is a potent farseer.
And as always, practice-learn-practice.
There is no real 'always win' army. I have Marines, Sisters, Chaos Marines, Eldar and find the Eldar to be the most rewarding and winniest of them all.
Read strategies online. I know there are several great threads on LO regarding Eldar tactics and play styles (sorry I don't know the links).
My brother and I have been playing 40K and Fantasy on and off for over 10 years, and we just recently added 4 brand new gamers to our group.
One of them was having much the same trouble as your friend, but with a different army. We found the best way to help him was make sure that during a game we would talk about tactics he could use, and ones he shouldn't have.
I think playing a few games where the objective is to simply get more practice, as opposed to winning is vital.
When he does something silly, let him know how he could have done it better.
When he writes a list that was lacking something in particular tell him what type of unit would help the list, overall.
Get him to write like 10 different lists (Proxy anything he doesn't have) and get him to play a bunch of different styles of eldar (Mech, MC, foot eldar)
And above all else, if he just can't work with Eldar at the moment, get him to play as a different army, with a heaps different style. He might realise that Eldar just doesn't match his play style, or he might realise that he loves eldar so much that he can't just walk away from them.
This doens't really give you specific alterations for his army or tactics, but let's face it, no list is unbeatable, and no tactic is perfect, and if someone else writes him a list and tells him how to use it, he may not end up anywhere near as good a player as he could be.
Originally Posted by LegendxSval FoundationOriginally Posted by wakopanda
Pretty much bang on. Getting "stuck" is never a good thing, but like it was mentioned, the second I got my second and third wave serpents, the wins started flowing. They're the linchpin to our army.
My gaming group and I still talk about our games afterwards and discuss what we could've done better, what worked and what didn't. When we are teaching a newcomer, we discuss throughout the game. Help him learn the game and the army, crushing him will never a fun gamer make.
Thanks for the tips, I'll pass these on to him. And I think you're all right, a bunch of dire avengers with wave serpents does not sound like fun to fight and I'm sure it would do much better. I always wondered why he bought so many guardians when avengers and other aspect warriors are so much cooler.
my second wave serpent i ordered for my storm guardians to roll in was a turning point. Picking up a box of fire dragons to hop in my falcon was an amazing day. the only other option i can think of (short of more vehicles) would be harlies as the elites choices, since veil of tears keeps them safe pretty much all the way to charge range. fighting MEQ's, use the hawks as AT, against GEQ's/demons, bounce the hawks in and out for the artillery... errr.... grenade packs =)
there is a solid foundation to a list that you posted, it sounds like it may be more strategy/technique.
make sure in the 10man guardian squads they are running with either multiple shot weapons (scatter laser ideal here) or missle launcher (only in blast form) to help overcome the mediocre BS.
Last edited by Noli; July 15th, 2010 at 18:46.
Space Marines: 3ooo
I think there definitely was a large amount of strategy problems. He was playing with 3 skimmers but never once did he try transporting troops in his transports. He just has them sitting there trying to shoot while his guardians march into rapid fire range. And he never gave any special weapons to the guardians. I really dont think he has a clue what he's doing but I'll try to get him to listen to some of this advice. Besides dire avengers what other aspect warriors would you reccommend? Fire Dragons? Are fire dragons flamers, sorry I've never faced them. He was talking about striking scorpions, are they any good?
Firedragons are all equiped with the eldars version of a melta gun the exarch can be equiped with a flamer but it is an option that is rarely used. 5 or 6 in a waveserpent are possibly the best AT unit in the game and by far the best one eldar have. Normally people don't take them in large numbers because the enemy likes to shoot squads full of melta guns once they get out of the transport. They have a reputation as a suicide squad, not the best way to play them but it is how some picture them.
Scorpions can be a good melee unit, they do best against low save horde armies like nids or orcs. This is because they have alot of attacks and str4 but only the exarch can get a powerweapon (well claw/fist). Lacking fleet does hurt but the 3+ save makes them durable. With exarch powers they can infiltrate or outflank. I feel they are the best stand alone melee unit we have but depending on target and psyker support banshees can be better ( I10 and str 3 powerweapons, backed by doom work over elite units nicely).
Also Ulthwe player I do have to stand up for guardians, Storms in a transport are an amazing unit and the guardians are one of the few troop choices we have that can get an effective AT gun ( although with a low bs ) warlocks can also add alot to a unit of guardians.
If your friend is just looking for a more powerful list I would point in the direction of a mech force ( like most of the people in this thread ). If he really wants to get a hybrid or footslogging list they can be built to be effective but will struggle against the most powerful builds of other armies.