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  1. #1
    The Unpredictable Tossy's Avatar
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    Boyz before Toyz

    Anyone who has been reading my posts recently has heard me scream this catch cry at every opportunity. The fact is that it is a very true statement when it comes to Orks, and very prevalent when building an effective list.

    First off people, start reading the Ork tactica (some sections desperately need updating to 5th, but they are good to know), secondly look here... Please

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...00-basics.html

    mynameisgrax and Rozzy have compiled something beautiful there.

    So, I have seen some ork lists and questions around here which are asking some basic questions which I should try and take care of here.

    1. Boyz before Toyz

    The backbone of every Ork army is the boyz. We have all of 2 troop choices and they must be used effectively.

    Boyz: Either big groups of them or don't bother.
    • On foot: Nothing less than 20 boyz
    • In Trukk or Battlewagon: Max out the boyz

    Every squad needs a nob and a PK. Kinda like people will say about SM and powerfists, it is the same for orks. It makes them versatile, and can hurt the big guys and tanks.

    Special Weapons:
    Stickbombs: While I am not a fan as in big mobs they start to add up in points and are fairly pointless, they can be useful in some squads but all in all if you know what you are doing you should have no problem. (boyz before toyz)

    By AvatarADV:
    The problem with stikkbombs is that they only make a difference in situations where the enemy has the same initiative as Orks or worse. There aren't that many of those instances. So you're taking an upgrade that (a) has only situational utility (must charge into terrain) and (b) has only some situational utility (enemy must have initiative < 4). There's also (c), "enemy unit must be a threat in CC" - if they're only going to knock out one or two boyz before your counterattack sweeps them off the table, there's not a lot of point in paying points to get to go first.
    Big Shootaz:
    Choppa Boyz: NEVER put them in choppa squads. You will be running for the enemy and they will be pointless

    Shoota Boyz: If you have the points for them, get them, if not don't bother. They are great point fillers.

    Rokkit Launcher:
    Choppa Boyz: (as above) NEVER put them in choppa squads. You will be running for the enemy and they will be pointless

    Shoota Boyz: Well here is one of the main reasons I am writing this article. They are expensive and yet they are pointless. Shootaz are made to shoot infantry. Assuming you Max a squad out with 30 Orks, you get 3 rokkit shots at BS2. Whoop-d-do. Even you manage to get a hit you have still shot all 30 orks at the tank effectively wasting 54 shots.

    'Ard Boyz: Honestly, your choice, I would never use them because I would rather another group of boyz (as my in boyz before toyz creed) but I see their use.

    Nobz in The squads: If you don't take them you are stupid... (you know who I am talking to)

    Power Klaw: They will help you take out special Chars and tanks alike. Do it or die. Power Klaws rock.

    Big Choppa: No... Just no "To quote Grax "denying armor saves is far more important than higher strength"

    Bosspole:Every ork squad needs a bosspole. well worth it's points. Re-rolling is just great

    Gretchins

    Gretchins are unimportant. which is why no one shoots at them. I will be honest, I have not used them very often, they are mostly objective sitters in my opinion but here is my tip.

    If you are taking large groups, take 19 instead of 20 or 29 instead of 30. This will mean you are not forced to take a runtherd for that extra 1.

    Ork royalty has told me off for what I said originally, here is his take

    By mynameisgrax:
    I LOVE GROTS! They draw no enemy fire, and sit on objectives for you, winning you games. What would you rather have sit on an objective in your deployment zone: 46 points of grots or 170 points worth of boyz?
    ----------------------------------

    Ok these don't have much to do with toyz you can give squads, but important none the less, as I seem to see more elites than I see troops... This is the wrong way to build a competitive army

    Elites:

    Nobz: READ THIS!!!
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...-nob-mobz.html

    I will say this quickly though. Nobz, when you start kitting them out they become expensive. Very expensive. On top of that they don't do anything different to what normal boyz do. So why not get another full squad of boyz rather than a small squad of nobz

    Meganobz: They have their place. They can do something that no one else in an ork list can do. They have awesome armour, PK's and combi-scorchers, plus they go great with your chosen leader. Just make sure you throw them into a transport, I can not stress that enough. They will die if you don't.

    Burna Boyz: Lots of Flamers and Power weapons. YAY! I consider these guys the most under-rated guys in the Dex. Use them correctly people. Guys in cover flamer the crap out of them, not in cover, charge the crap out of them. It is the best way to wipe out a unit. At one point I loved the idea of firing with half of them and charging with the other half, but I can't do that anymore.

    Tank Bustaz: READ THIS!!!

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ankbustas.html

    Tank bustaz in my opinion, useless. Redundant to death.

    Lootaz: Bread and butter... that is all

    Ok fine, I will explain. Lootaz are the real tank bustaz, they get a stupid amount of Dakka and are able to rip apart anything within range. They are cheap and effective in a Mach army or a footslogging army, and well anything in between.

    They are by no means necessary but in my opinion they are the most cost effective unit besides boyz.

    Kommandos: Needs Snikrot, if you want to take away the randomness.

    They are just great... There is way too many way to run these guys and way too many tactics to use. I will discuss them later if need be. They are great distraction, they can be very hurty and wipe out entire units and scream for more

    Ok guys and girls, This was a brief summary that I was writing that got out of hand and I have been sitting here for over an hour.
    I would go into vehicles but that would take too long for me right now, I could go into them later if you wish.

    The whole purpose of this was boyz before toyz. Orks need boyz, while ork elites are good, ork vehicles are good. Ork boyz will tear entire armies apart.

    YOU NEED TROOPS!

    P.S. If you want me to go more in depth about anything in the Dex (nothing that violates the rules) post a request and I will do some writeups and post them in more specific topics.

    Last edited by Tossy; July 20th, 2010 at 01:21.
    Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
    Mal: Define "interesting".
    Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

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  3. #2
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Amen!

    The only points I have issue with are burnas and grots.

    As you said, 'boyz before toyz', and burnas are no exception. Burnas are great anti-infantry squads, and they can trash marines as well, but a group of boyz with a powerklaw and bosspole is also good at the same things. They're not as good, admittedly, but the boyz can claim objectives, take a bosspole, and transports. Burnas really need the bosspole and transport as well, but unless you attach a character and a heavy support vehicle, it's not happening.

    Burnas are indeed potent, but they fall firmly into the 'toyz' category, in my opinion, and I always wind up taking lootas, meganobz, or kommandos instead.

    Secondly (and you knew this was coming), I LOVE GROTS! They draw no enemy fire, and sit on objectives for you, winning you games. What would you rather have sit on an objective in your deployment zone: 46 points of grots or 170 points worth of boyz?

    This are just nitpicky issues though.

    Great article! ^_^
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru.../mynameisgrax/

  4. #3
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    You certainly make some good points that have indeed been rehashed many times over on this forum. However, I'm a bit confused on your main point. Are you saying that upgrades to units are toys, or that other units such as tankbustas are toys? (Technically, all of our models are "toyz" hahaha). If you're saying that boyz before toyz in the sense of upgrades, I think you're ignoring the necessity of some toyz. One could make the argument that you could get 4 more boyz for the cost of a powerklaw (toy), but clearly that toy is worth it, contradicting your statement. You could also argue that a transport is a toy!

    Many of your statements are generally true but I think many are too quick to discount some options. Using stikkbombs on a transported unit can be worth it if there is a lot of terrain on the board, or if you're facing terrain-dependent armies. I've used 3 rokkit boyz in my 30-strong foot mobz very effectively, adding a much-needed anti-tank punch and versatilitity, especially if they can't get to their target for close combat even with running or are defending a position. Ard boyz have their uses too, especially in a transport when you send them to fight units that don't have many attacks that ignore armor. Yes, you'll often be better off not taking upgrades, but sometimes you should always take toyz (powerklaws, bosspoles) and the others are often useful.

    If you only take the most hyper-effective options, you're going to have a very generic army with little variation. Mixing it up can get you units that are still pretty good but perhaps aren't the very best (like burnas), it can add variety and cool models, and it can also be more rewarding when you win with it.

    Ork boyz are great! I have a couple hundred of them. But don't forget about the other fun options. And realize that the mantra of "boyz before toyz" is not a hard law but more of a recommendation that will often bring you success.

    Again, good points and thanks for the tactics, but don't forget to think outside the box... after all, datz what makes each ork unique!

  5. #4
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    oops, double posted, perhaps a mod can delete this, sorry
    Last edited by Seanchadith; July 19th, 2010 at 22:26.

  6. #5
    Member AvatarADV's Avatar
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    The problem with stikkbombs is that they only make a difference in situations where the enemy has the same initiative as Orks or worse. There aren't that many of those instances. So you're taking an upgrade that (a) has only situational utility (must charge into terrain) and (b) has only some situational utility (enemy must have initiative < 4). There's also (c), "enemy unit must be a threat in CC" - if they're only going to knock out one or two boyz before your counterattack sweeps them off the table, there's not a lot of point in paying points to get to go first.

    I picked up some more grots over the weekend, heh...

  7. #6
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    true dat on the stikkbombs, but my larger point was that often-discounted upgrades can be useful

  8. #7
    The Unpredictable Tossy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanchadith View Post
    You certainly make some good points that have indeed been rehashed many times over on this forum. However, I'm a bit confused on your main point. Are you saying that upgrades to units are toys, or that other units such as tankbustas are toys? (Technically, all of our models are "toyz" hahaha). If you're saying that boyz before toyz in the sense of upgrades, I think you're ignoring the necessity of some toyz. One could make the argument that you could get 4 more boyz for the cost of a powerklaw (toy), but clearly that toy is worth it, contradicting your statement. You could also argue that a transport is a toy!

    Again, good points and thanks for the tactics, but don't forget to think outside the box... after all, datz what makes each ork unique!
    I understand your point. I play for fun to be honest, most times will run stupid things like SAG's and Weirdboyz because I find them more fun. Not because they are competitive. For example, my Tankbustaz still make the rounds against most army's when I am not playing to win and each one gets marked when they take down a tank, stupidly it appears that 1 of my models is taking out everyone by himself. (he has 14 tanks bagged, the rest only seem to have 3 or 4.)

    Plus I love taking burnaz... man do I love flaming IG in cover

    I wrote this because of how many 'tournament' or 'competitive' lists there are around that aren't that competitive. There are uses for everything in the codex, otherwise they would not be in there, but it does not mean they are the most competitive thing on the list. Also there is a huge amount of new people not knowing what to use in an Ork dex because of all the fun goodness of the units.

    On a sub note, I have added what grax and AvatarADV said to this article
    Last edited by Tossy; July 20th, 2010 at 01:24.
    Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
    Mal: Define "interesting".
    Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

  9. #8
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    I am a big fan of the grots. Better shooting, cheap and nobody gives them a second look. Our last game for fun my grot mob took out the SM scout squad (including Sgt. Telion) and most of a tactical squad before being wiped out by a Whirlwind attack...

  10. #9
    LO Zealot greggles's Avatar
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    Burna Boyz: Lots of Flamers and Power weapons. YAY! I consider these guys the most under-rated guys in the Dex. Use them correctly people. Guys in cover flamer the crap out of them, not in cover, charge the crap out of them. It is the best way to wipe out a unit. At one point I loved the idea of firing with half of them and charging with the other half, but I can't do that anymore.
    The problem I have with burna boyz, is that they aren't any tougher then normal boyz, but cost nearly 3 times as much. Your unit size is also limited to a max of 15, which means you're only 4 burna's away from an LD 7 leadership test with no BP reroll. This gives you a unit, that if it loses its transport, can be picked off extremely fast. (This is ignoring the fact that if you take anything less then 12, 1 burna dead = 11 burna's running)

    Flaming templates of death are fantastic out of a transport...but on the ground, i see the burna's as a very expensive point sink that has limited utility. They'll either get 1 good assault and be slaughtered (once it ends), or they'll never make it to the target. (Limited use of fearless, no BP reroll, standard boyz toughness)

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