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can I put 1 wound on each warrior or do I have to put 3 on the 1st one?
Edit: I are a dunce!
Last edited by Hockeyman506; July 20th, 2010 at 23:25.
This is not quite correct. You have to allocate 1 wound to each model before you wrap around to give another model two wounds...So with your 3 warriors and 10 wounds coming in you have to either roll 6 saves for normal warriors and 4 on the venom cannon warrior, or 7 saves on the normal warriors and 3 on the venom cannon.
in that case, with 3 warriors - 2 spitters and 1 venom.
if I alrdy have a wound on one of them, do I have to put the new wounds on him or can I put them on the other one?
Hey
In the case of Multiple-Wound Models, we need to look at page 26 of the BrB. However, we do anything we need to look at the rules for allocating wounds, which is on the previous page. In the case of assigning wounds to models in a unit, it states that:
"The player must allocate one wound to each model in the target unit before he can allocate a second wound to the same model. Once all models in the target unit have one wound allocated to them, the process is repeated and the player must allocate a second wound to all models before a third, etc, etc."
Now we have the understandings of allocation, we can move onto the specifics. If you have a look at pg 26, you will find the following passage:
"Once you have determined the number of unsaved wounds suffered by a group of identical multiple-wound models, you must remove whole models as casualties where possible. Wounds may not be spread around to avoid removing models."
We now have the basis for a discussion. Because a squad of Warriors consists of multiple wound models, all of them identical save for the heavy weapon one, they follow this statement. Say for example we have a squad of 5 Warriors, each with 3 wounds, and one with a Deathspitter, making it different to the rest of the squad. This squad suffers 21 wounds. Now, Hockeyman, I do not know where you get the impression that half of the wounds must be allocated to the heavy weapon Warrior, because it does not say that. It says that you allocate a single wound to each model before you allocate another one again.
Therefore, you will be allocating 5 wounds to each Warrior, and because you have a spare, that can go on any Warrior. You choose to put this on a normal Warrior, to maximise the chance of keeping the Deathspitter Warrior. Now, because not all of the squad is identical, you have to roll for each seperately. First, because 4 of the Warriors are identical, you roll saves for all of them AT ONCE. You suffer 10 wounds. Now, per the ruling aforementioned, take wounds for the full characteristic of the indvidual, before you move onto a second model. This means that, because the 4 Warriors have 3 wounds each, you remove 3 Warriors, and put 1 wound on the 4th Warrior.
You then roll the Deathspitter Warrior after this, and suffer 2 Wounds. Youn remove two wounds from the said Warrior, and he is left with a single wound.
I hope that this makes sense, and I believe that this is the proper way to do this.
Good Hunting.
Light a fire for a man, and he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
You allocate wounds across the different game-rule groupings in units. And as always, you must always remove whole models whenever possible.
Say you have 3 Warriors, all equipped with rending claws and deathspitters. You have one game-rule group of models because all of the models are exactly the same in every way. If the unit suffers 2 wounds, one model takes 2 of those wounds. You cannot distribute 1 wound on one model and the 2nd wound on a different model. They're all the same, so the wounds stack until you kill something off. If the unit suffers 3 wounds, and you save none of them, you have to remove an entire model.
Say you have 3 Warriors, all of them have rending claws, but 2 of them have devourers while 1 has a venom cannon. Now you have two unique game-rule groupings in the unit: 2 models are exactly the same (rending claws/devourers) while 1 model is different (rending claws/venom cannon). Say this unit suffers 2 wounds. You can choose to distribute these wounds in two different ways:
a. Put one wound on the rending claw/devourer grouping and one wound on the venom cannon grouping.
b. Put two wounds on the rending claw/devourer grouping.
Then you roll saves for each group of wounds you created. In situation (a), failing both saves just means that the venom cannon Warrior takes a wound and a devourer Warrior also takes a wound. In situation (b), failing both saves means that a single devourer Warrior takes both wounds.
Now say that this same unit takes 5 wounds. Recalling that every model has to take at least one wound before you can double up, here are your allocation options.
a. Put four wounds on the devourer grouping and one wound on the venom cannon grouping.
b. Put three wounds on the devourer grouping and two wounds on the venom cannon grouping.
Again, you'll roll your saves independently, once for the devourer group and once again for the venom cannon group.
Now say that you attach a Warrior Prime to this unit of 3 Warriors. Now you have 4 models and 3 distinct rule-groupings.
I'll leave it up to you to work through the wound allocation ramifications of this.
Now, that said, a "rule-grouping" really is just that: anything that distinguishes any model from any other in its unit. Take a minimal Marine tactical squad of 5 models but without any upgrades bought. There are still two groups of models there, even when all the weapons loadouts are completely identical: one group is 4 models of basic Marines, and one group is 1 model of the Sergeant, who has special rules (and also an added pip of LD, but even if his LD was the same as his brethren, the fact that his rules are unique would still make him a separate group).
Last edited by number6; July 20th, 2010 at 18:29.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
number6 has it right, but to answer your question, the wounded model in a group takes the new wounds until it is dead. It's better to think of them in groups rather than models, once one group has taken 3 wounds you remove a model. You can however assign the wounds to any group, so if you have two warriors with different gear, lets say a vanilla one and one with a venom cannon and the one with the venom cannon has already taken two wounds and the other is unharmed you can choose to apply the next wound taken to the regular warrior so you don't risk loosing the venom cannon one.
So, in short, different gear means different groups, you can always choose how to allocate wounds taken to the different groups, but once you have allocated them then the wounds always kill the maximum amount of models for you. A special case is when you take a wound that would cause instant death (say a krak missile), then you must remove an entire unharmed model in the group you assigned it to first, you can't avoid the ID effect by assigning that wound to a model in the group with only one wound left, so again, it's resolved in the worst possible way for the group taking the wounds.
When all models are identical, you have to apply the new wound to the already wounded warrior.
Example, Unit of 3 identical warriors. (9 wounds):
- First round the unit has to roll 4 wounds, saves 3. The unit now has 8 wounds left. As 1 is less than 3, no model is removed.
- Second round the unit must roll 4 wounds, saves 2. The unit now has 6 wounds left. One model is removed. You now have 2 warriors with 3 wounds each.
Remember, this is for IDENTICAL models only. As stated before, with mixed loadouts you have to allocate wounds equally before saves are taken.
Well, that's what I get for never playing with multiple-wound models.
Thanks for correcting that failed rule interpretation. Imma just go in the corner and shut up now.