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So I have decide to try this hobby called 40k. I have always been a fan of orcs in literature and whenever given I get a chance to play as an orc in a game I go for the beloved greenskins. My problem so far in 40k is the fact that space marines seem to NEVER die. i have taken to reading this forum and mynameisgrax seems to be a wellspriong of advice. Yet, in my local store nearly every army is what he calls mesqi-melt with 2+ land raiders, terminators, and if Chaos(which is just another flavor of SM) oblits. Well
- Orks have no real way of dealing with land raiders except Deffrollers and maybe a Pk or 2. Both of which depend on two sets of above average rolls to dent and are usually fixed by a machine spirit on the next turn. Plus if u did ram u are probbbally very much outa position the next turn. Tankbusta should be an option but LOL no GW has nerfed them so hard with Glory Hogs that they are more of a nusiance then a threat
-terminators are another very hard nut to crack and if u make the mistake of assaulting them ur usually finished. however grax has pointed out that orcs can shoot so ive tried taking um on with lootas and my few twin linked weapons. but 2+ armor plus their invuls plus or lack of high powered ap weapons make this a very tough option.
- oblits see terminators but with more wounds
now i know the accepted answer is just buy more boys if u have 40000 orks on ur side ull win sure ull lose 3500 of them but ull win
well first of all that alot of kill points, second moving that many orks in a timely fashion is damn near impossible, and lastly their has to be a better way to kill space marines besides beating my head against a wall until it stops hurting.
Anyway any suggestions on how to turn orks from laughable losers to a real threat would be appreciated.
P.S. I hate SM's they're the Yankees of 40k.
trukks to move boyz fast and cheap.
ghazkull Thrakka, prophet of the waaghj, arguabely one of the toughest chars of 40k.
Rokkit Buggies/ koptas
Killa Kans/deff dreads
Battlewaogn with deffrolla and boarding plank with thrakka in it.
kommandos are said(dont know that yet for myself) to have some anti vehicle capabilities.
I suggest browsing some of the tactica threads in here (bit of searching needed, but hey this forum ha a search function ) and see for yourself, Land Raiders are tough but they do break reallll goood.
Landraiders are supposed to be tough, that's why they cost as much as 41 boyz.
The tactic is - shoot it, stun it, walk up (or better, ride up) and smack it. When it's stunned you can smack the snot out of it.
OR - best tactic, get into CC and ignore the LR - yah, it's really hard to kill, so kill all the 'weaker' stuff.
As for killing Termies - it's a 2+ save, but that's not enough when you need to make 20+ saving rolls.
Oh, and I am sure you know but it bears repeating, PKs in every mob.
AND... I personally love burna boyz - they have power weapons vs High armoured foes and templates vs low armoured foes. These guys rock. Get a mob into assault, and the next turn, charge in with these guys to mop up.
Hosea 1:11 - Great will be the day of Jezreel.
Land Raiders are a problem. Tank busters are supposed to be a solution, but they don't work. No form of rokkets works. The closest we get to a ranged answer is the weirdboy melta at 18" (which does kill the raider frequently - a 10+2d6 hit with +1 on the damage table is deadly) but it's not consistent.
Terminators are just weak to volume of fire attacks. Consider a squad of 30 shootas with 3 big shootas. That's a 240 point squad we're describing. Shootas get 54 attacks, hits on 5+, wounds on 4+, 2+ save, big shootas wound on 3+ but get 9. That's 63 incoming attacks, 11 incoming wounds, or 2 dead termies. If your opponent has a 5 man squad, they are now very safe to charge, as 3 termies will NOT kill many boyz.
20 man battlewagon squads are better than 30 man squads, but the termies need more softening. Consider having two squads shoot and one of them charge. Obviously two full squads will kill only 3 termies, but if they have 5, that's damn nice. Remember, a 5 man termie squad often weighs in at ~250+.
10 man termie squads are more of an issue. On the plus side, they're a huge points investment. Frankly, just ignore it and kill other stuff. They'll be all like 'raaaarrrr' in the middle of the board, and you can drive around them and kill stuff.
Note that MOST SM armies can't take assault termies and shooty termies in the same squad, so if you're getting cycloned, you can charge em and kill em.
Oblits are slow and stupid. Bury them in walls of fire, or ignore them.
P.S. The PK gets in 4 attacks on the charge. They can't allocate them all to stormshields, unless they're fully kitted TH+SS assault termies at which point they'll never actually kill their way through the boyz mob, just bog em and grind em down.
P.P.S. Orks are a good 4th edition codex, but there's some rough edges. One of them is that it's assumed that glancing hits can take out armor, which just isn't the case anymore (S8 is no good vs. armor 14).
Last edited by RisingPhoenix; July 26th, 2010 at 20:35.
What Phoenix said is true. To be honest I think the lack of anti-tank balanced our lovely codex out but I agree 5th ed made some of our units redundant.
The best thing about orks is that we can ignore large amounts of elites or bog them down and it will not change our plan.
In my last game against SW, I sent my remaining 21 orks at a group of 5. They didn't make it through them in all in the remaining 3 turns. I killed 2 they killed 10.
I ignored his 2 LR's... It doesn't shoot enough for me to worry about it. Plus it's loadout can't charge me when they get dumped, so really they are just squishyness in a can. The one that sat on objective, I charged with a PK.
Last edited by Tossy; July 27th, 2010 at 00:30.
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?
A warboss on a warbike has proven for me to be one of the best anti land raider weapons.. 6 S10 attacks on the charge is usually more than effective to neutralize it.
2000pts Orks 4-2-1
Something that occurred to me, reading the original post...Your opponents only get ONE save. If they have 2+ armor, and you don't have AP2 or a power weapon, that's it; they get a 2+ save. They do NOT get a 2+ armor save and THEN an invulnerable save. If your opponents are doing this, they're cheating, and no wonder you're frustrated!but 2+ armor plus their invuls plus or lack of high powered ap weapons make this a very tough option.
Your opponent will get the best save that's available to them, and that's it. If they have a 3+ armor save, they're standing in 4+ cover, and they have a 5+ invulnerable, they don't get an armor save, a cover save, and then an invulnerable save. Which save they DO get will depend on the circumstances...
-If they get shot by a shoota, they'll get the 3+ armor save.
-If they get hit by an AP2 weapon, they'll get the 4+ cover save (because that weapon ignores their 3+ armor save).
-If your warboss hits them with a power klaw in hand to hand, they get the 5+ invulnerable save. (No armor saves against a klaw, no cover saves in CC.)
(Some people do this because they're confused with how saves work in Warhammer Fantasy, where you get an armor save and then a ward save. Other people know darned well that you're not supposed to get two, but take advantage of people who don't...)
Most enemies attack terminators with a few shots of AP2 weaponry and the termies make some invulnerable saves. Orks just throw whatever they have at the termies and hope they roll enough 1s. It can, and does, work; I've seen a unit of shootas send a unit of terminators packing, simply because they're rolling a whole box car of dice. Don't make the mistake of trying to punch through terminators with high-powered ork weaponry - it's not high-powered ENOUGH to get through that 2+ armor save, and you won't have enough of it to bury them in shots the way you can with plain ol' shootas.
The best solution against a land raider is still "ignore it". You're unlikely to kill it unless you attack it in hand-to-hand with a power klaw (and it wasn't moving, and if that happens, your opponent is asleep at the wheel) or ram it with a deffrolla (do this if you get the opportunity, but don't get your battlewagon killed to do it!) A well-equipped land raider is expensive; if he's got a well-equipped land raider full of terminators, that means that he's got a LOT of eggs in one basket. Bait it out of the way, and concentrate on punching through the rest of his forces.
and indeed. just ignoring a land raider (or monolith if up against necrons) works fine aswell but sometimes just hummiliating your opponent by beating his prized possesion with some greenskins is worth more then 10+ boyz lost in the attempt to kill it :p and it is the most Orky thing to do. :p
I think think that I have ever destroyed a land raider. I just entice the unit out and then smash it to goo.
Ghazgul, killa kans, deff dreads, deffrollas, S10 boarding planks, you do have the options for taking em, just not at range. In most cases, just ignore them.
At 2k try
Big Mek with Kustom force field
10 nobs with pain boy, cyborg bodies, 3 power klaws, bosspole, waaagh banner, 6 big choopas(Ghazgul goes here)
3 big units of boys with boss poles, power klaw nobs, big shootas
as many koptas as you have in 3 untis
a unit of killa kans or two, maybe a deff dread with some rockits if you have to
a couple of lootas
This list has a handful of ways to take on a LR, and Ghazgul will likely be smashen something turn 2. Most marine armies will have issues with this list.
The only real LR you have to fear is a Redeemer. Tankshok Flamestorm Cannon is just plain not nice.
Last edited by Zagman; July 29th, 2010 at 03:57.