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Im looking for advice playing against mark of nurgle CSM acompanied by multi char list incl lash of submission. Read below for some background battlereport or skip to the end reading bolded parts.
I recently played a nurgle CSM player with my hybrid "hammer and anvil" eldar list. This player got the advantage of making a list knowing he would face eldar while i had come prepared with an all comers list.
Game was 1750 pts. I had a slogging "anvil" consisting of 2 AT WLs, Avatar and 16 guardians defenders with Scatterlaser and warlock with spiritseer+embolden. Tactic was marching towards a chosen objective while taking out enemy armor from the distance crushing everything in my path. Second part of army consisted of 2x 10DAs in serpents with dual SC exarch and 10 banshees incl earch and +doomseer in serpent. This force was supposed to manouver and deliver the pain whewre it hurts most in good fashion taking or contesting other objective. Additionally i had 5 deepstriking Warpspiders to take out light armour or other appropriate targets.
Opponent had (if im correct) 3 mark of nurgle marine squads 2 mounted in rhinos, 2 lords one with jetpack + lash of submission + great unclean one. 2 deepstriking obliterators, 1 deepstriking terminator squad.
Game was ardboys scenario,,what is it called where u start in opposing quarters going for objectives in teh remaining 2 quarters.
I like my list in general, its decently comeptitive for a non-mech list lacking troop choices being my biggest problem with it ive used variations of it many games and its fared ok. Currently Im adding units to make a more competitive mech list but this is beyond the scope of this post.
I did ok in the beginning taking out 2 rhinos first two turns forcing my opponent to slog. I think i could have put up a decent fight. I ended up losing clearly making a few major mistakes the first being getting my serpents cornered turn 3: serpents and DAs got opened up like cans of crushed tomatoes by among other things terminators in CC. SEcond major mistake followed as i got distracted from heading to objective with the slogging part in an attempt to support the serpents/DAs with long range s8 fire (not the first time, so stupid). A third funny thing was taking out the last rhino with my spidersquad followed by a nurglemarine squad emerging and eating me up, much funnier shooting dreadnoughts with these babies and i didnt have withdraw.
I found that against marines with t5 even having doom wasnt enough to let the banshees do the job they do so well against t4 targets. Maybe harlies would have been at least as good (specially when the great unclean one joined in)
Whats you take on kicking tougness 5 nurglemarines supported in a fashion similiar to the above? (assuming im not making the beginnersmistakes ive already mentioned)
Hi, nurgle marine player here. First question, was he using just regular marines with the mark of nurgle or was he using the far more tough and deadly plague marines? In any case some things at your disposal that work well against T5 will be multishot high strength weapons like scatter lasers or shuriken cannon/catapult whichever is the strong one. T5 marines are especially hard to deal with because you'll have to roll well to wound with most of your weapons and then they still have their 3+ save or if they're plague marines they have their 3+ followed by their 4+ FNP. Off the top of my head one good counter would be fire dragons, high strength and low AP should make short work of nurgle marines especially if doomed. Fireprisms can also do very well, especially if guided at wounding and denying saves. If you're going to assault them with anything (not highly recommended) it should be a unit of striking scorpions with exarch claw. Higher strength will help a lot. Warpspiders can put on wounds well but not sure if they pen marine armor. Otherwise 2 units of DA bladestorming doomed marines means they will die.
Thinking of it they did have that extra feel no pain save too, really annoying.
Thanks for the advice, had a couple of questions though
Does doom really make any real difference if you have s8 in your experience?
Rending and powerweapos negates FNP right? (thinking of harlies and banshees)
Any weapon that always ignores armour bypasses FNP.
So yes, Power Weapons count, and so do rending when they rend, since the attack then counts as AP2 (which always bypasses anyones armour)
First ..i`m not comment your list .....but do not expect to win much with it. Never use competitive again with it please.
Second... csm is an outdated expensive codex. While you realize this you`ll see they have only a few builds and their synergies work in a way that makes the csm player use the same tactics over and over. Of course they can use raptors or other spawns from their codex but that would make your job easier.
1. ussualy you`ll see lash, use runes of warding and look at him funny while he ritual suicide trying to cast spells.
2. if he deep strike oblits and termies , deep strike means on foot that means they arrive shoot and then never find combat in their life. If termies get to CC you made major mistakes on movement phase. Oblits are other problem and while they are expensive they are one of the good units in term of effectivness and versatility from CSM codex
3. Papa nurgle. Dunno about your army but if i want to kill plague marines i find 50 S6 shots enough to drom one squad down. In your case even CC units like lords and avatar can break trough them. Put a torrent of fire and they will lose wounds. anyone can fail saves no matter how good are.
4. Greater daemon - Great unclean one???? where in CSM codex is this daemon? maybe in daemon codex the CSM greater daemon is the fail variant of daemon codex one. Is T6 4 wounds 4+ invul it has no special abilities, is on foot and kill one of the CSM champion models (i hope he is not killing a lord ) to be summoned. He can assault in the turn it arrives. But he is still on foot slow and looking funny while you shoot him from over 24 inches. and dies like a dire avenger from shuriken cannon fire.
In the end what i see is that you simply do not have firepower to break his army like a cheap nut that is. Combine that with major mistakes and look you just lost.
PS i write this smiling so read it like way...so i do not have again complains i`m too angry
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
thanks for the constructive input. about your first & last comment: if you find that people react to toxic comments rather than excellent advice and you also can foresee this effect like the seasoned seer you are, you could opt to reformulate and get more rep. might be a blast
runes of warding..yes!
the morphing unclean thing wasnt a real problem.
more s6/melta. on it..
That's pretty much it. Scatter Lasers and Fire Dragons will cope with just about anything anyone can throw at you and a cheap seer is almost always worth it for runes of warding if you're making an all-comers list (the exception being reserve denail lists).
You highlight the reason I don't ever run banshees.. they can be rendered next to useless at which point they become quite a big point sink. If you take dragons over banshees, they are never useless, they'll always have a target they can hurt a lot.
With the list you had, your main aim should have been to get the lords and avatar in cc with the plague marines, hunt down the jetpack sorcerers with the bladestorming DAs (if they're jumppack/lash, they're t4 and on their own. that makes them very easy to kill) and keep your banshees for the incoming termies/oblits. Castle at the start (keep the avatar back you don't want him lashed into a torrent of fire, alternatively ring him with the guardians), he'll probably lash your MCs, but after he does, you can move out and bladestorm down the sorcerers, 12" move 2" disembark and 18" range means you will certain have range, you might even be able to hit him first. Castling will also deny his termies/oblits good places to deepstrike. keep your units a little spaced tho, you don't want to give good plasma cannon targets and it may also tempt him to try a risky deepstrike which will probably go wrong.
With your waveserpent guns and the scatter laser platform plinking away at the rhino's as they approach, hopefully you can stagger the plague marines arrival. two lords and an avatar should crush them unit by unit. the greater demon will pack some punch in CC, but if you can keep it on a wraithlord then he's wounding on 6s and you can pretty much laugh at it. the rest of your army can kite rhino's/foot sloggers as he can't assault out of them and he's only got 2 melta shots (with 1d6 pen) from each before you can disappear across the table.
the game should be winnable with the list you have, just make sure you're using the right units for the right jobs.
I like putting Wraithguard against plague marines. Fortune+Conceal makes them more durable then Plague Marines xD
However it's hella expensive =P
40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)
It was the kind who comes from killing a champion, my bad about the name but i think it came from the CSM guys mouth originally
He wasnt rally in issue.