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Hello folks, first post around here and of course I'm loaded with questions, which I hope will get answered here.
I started collecting 40k models some 4 months ago with some friends, first as a stand-in models for our table top RPGs(the models look much cooler than Fantasy and various others universes, in our opinion) and after a while we got into it and I chose the Eldar as my first army, mainly because of how cool their various paint sets and backgrounds seemed.
I didn't know then that I was starting to collect an army widely considered, from what I've heard since, as a "must-be" mech and to tell the truth it's been a little disappointing. I love painting models, I love glueing them together in new and unique ways and I dislike that when I play they should be inside vehicles, rarely visible on the table-top. I did buy a few vehicles and I love their look, so I'm not against playing mech as such, I just don't want to hide just about everything I have inside transports. I guess that classifies my taste toward a more diverse army.
Models I own so far are: Avatar of Khaine(he came with a very good discount and the model is just looking great) and Farseer with 3 retinue warlocks for HQ's; 2 full(10 models each) Dire Avenger squads for troops; 1 squad of 6 Howling Banshees and 1 squad of 6 Fire Dragons for elite; 3 war walkers, a Falcon and the Wraithlord for Heavy Support and a Serpent as a Transport.
So, the list is currently completely mixed, and I'm not sure which way to head from here on out. My local store currently has a shortage of Eldar models, but are getting a new shipment of 40k due next month. So suggestions on which way to build my army would be welcome so I don't buy models I'm rarely going to use.
For HQ's, I planned on buying 2 Autarch kits(one with powersword, the other depending on what the store gets), for troops...well, basically nothing else, as I don't like Guardians, which are in my limited experience a total waste in the current Dex, Wraithguard are not an option and jetbikes as far as I've heard best compliment a full mech army, not a mixed one. But if I'm mistaken here, a squad or two of jetbikes are certainly an option. For Heavy Support, I dunno, I guess it would depend on suggestions here. As for Fast Attack, I'd rather avoid Swooping Hawks, although they look awesome, they seem a bit underwhelming when it comes to their usefulness, but would gladly get a box or two of Warp Spiders, as they look really cool and seem to be an excellent harrasment or anti-horde unit. Vypers maybe, but they seem overcosted in points with all the upgrades I'd like to take and I have to buy them all separately on a limited budget here.
And finally things I'd like to avoid...
1)Fire Dragon spamming. I am aware of how damn useful they are, but I like diversity in my playstyle. Sides, I'm not going on any tourneys or anything anytime soon, so playing casual is all fine with me.
2)More than a combination of 3 transport vehicles(2 Serpents + 1 Falcon, or 3 Serpents, or 1 Serpent + 2 Falcons) up to 1.5k points. I just find mech lists very uncolourful, no matter their usefulness.
3)Fire Prisms. They're cool, but 1 Fire Prism seems not living up to its potential and 2 Fire Prisms are both straining on the budget and on the crowded Heavy Support section of the Eldar army. I'd rather keep my War Walkers + Falcon combo. Perhaps a Nithspinner on the side? 2 Wraithlords + Avatar? Many options as far as I see it, which the dual Fire Prisms would restrict.
4)And this is the last one...Jetbike Councils. I like to follow the background of the army I play, I was always a lore-lover no matter the setting, and as I'm not planning to play an Ulthwe army, I don't like the notion of Seer Councils. Perhaps a small one with a Seer + 3 Warlocks, but I don't know how useful they'd be with all the small arms fire pointed in their direction. Suggestions welcome here.
Anyway, that's it. Thanks in advance for your answers, hopefully your input will help me decide over my dillema and save me some cash in the process.
don't discredit the hawks completely. although I tend to bring my spiders more frequently, the hawks have their place, esp. if you are light on AT. their haywire grenades, plus their mobility and anti-GEQ make for a very versatile unit if properly played.
my eldar are basically divided into 2 diff. armies. Eldrad or a fortune/doom seer charging up the middle with 2 wraithlords (one with sword running, other with EML/BL to take out armor) make up the core of my footy list. my mech list is dominated by DA's and storm guardians in serpents, flushed out with dragons in a falcon, a walker, and a fire prism. flush out with some vypers to help keep AT guns busy the whole game.
gotta go to work, more later
Space Marines: 3ooo
Arenion, what you intend with the army?
Eldar codex is old style and does not have too many options in terms of effective gameplay.
5`th edition is about firepower, mobility, mobile melta, troops.
So what we can offer? fire dragons, serpents, small squad of wraithguard, small squads of warlocks with singing spears(S9 is good), reliable cheap S6 weapons, more serpents, 18inch assault 2 bolters, mobile fire support, farseer tricks, melta autarchs.
So that will be all.
Start from here and build your army but until you do not have the elements needed for a good 5`th ed list you`ll not have chances against good players.
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
First of all, thanks for the replies.
And well, Miraco, I'm not too worried about being competitive. What I do want is synergy in my army, regardless of how effective it is at beating other players.
What I'm after in this thread is for other, more experienced Eldar commanders to provide me some input on building a hybrid list that is first and foremost fun and engaging, preferably to build on what I already own(or most of it, at least)...
Cos atm, most of what I see around the forums are the same old things and tactics, including dual Prisms and Serpent Dragon spam. I'm not saying that it's wrong to be competitive, just that it's not -my- goal. But unfortunately while I do basically know what I want, I don't know how to achieve it succesfully and that's where you guys come in.
And Noli, I'm not dimissing the hawks, it's just that in the lists I've made so far, I never had the points to put both Spiders and Hawks in, so I always picked Spiders.
Basically you are after a Hybrid list.
I'll add a link to mine, it's competative but mostly I picked it because like you I did not want the usual spam list that most forums encourage.
For heavy support I originally planned on having 1 wraithlord, 3 warwalkers and some dark reapers. But the wraithlord model is a dream to put together and looks fantastic that I ended up with 2.
I think guardian jetbikes have their place in a non-mech list. The 6" assault move allows them to JSJ like a crisis suit.
Best of luck.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
In my experience good hybird list is 2 mech assault units , 1 mech and/or bike troop choice, small squad of pathfinders (only take these guys as your second troop choice but don't put faith in them), war walkers and dark reapers for heavy support. With warlocks its go big or go home, no in between. At 1.5k you should be able to fit in 7 warlocks(embolden and enhance only)+fortune(keeps warlocks alive longer)/doom(rerolling wounds can make pathfinders worth it) seer. Also yes avoid Swooping Hawks they suck at everything there suppose to do(4+ save, makes using haywire grenades into suicide runs, and there guns are just little bit better then flashlights) and expansive even for Eldar prices. Also to the guys saying mech is the only way to win Bike'dar still deadly as hell, hybird lists also can win if build and played right. Change that almost every Eldar list if built and played right is going to win, Mech is just the strongest and easiest to play out of the options.
Here's an idea I was playing with: 1250p
Autarch: Warp Jump generator, Mandiblasters, Power weapon, Deathspinner = 120p
Troops: 282 + 282 = 564
10xDA: Exarch, dual shuricats, Bladestorm = 152p
+ Wave Serpent: TL EML spirit stones = 130p
10xDA: Exarch, dual shuricats, Bladestorm = 152p
+ Wave Serpent: TL EML, spirit stones = 130p
10x Striking Scorpions: Exarch, Scorp's claw, Stalker, Shadowstrike = 212p
Fast Attack: 174p
6x Warp Spiders: Exarch, dual Deathspinners, Powerblades, Withdraw = 174p
Heavy Support: 180p
3x War walkers: 6x Scatter lasers = 180p
Mind you, this isn't what I'd play at 1250, given the obvious lack to handle heavy armor, just a base for a 1500 point list. These are all units I really like. What's a good 2nd HQ here? What's the alternative to Fire Dragons in a transport, if there are any...I mean, I can play a Falcon with 5 FD inside, but I'd really like to keep it down to these 2 DA serpents and keep the rest of my army either fast or heavily armored(Spiders and Scorp's). Would a seer council compliment this army? What size would it have to be to be survivable? How about a second Autarch and a unit of Shining Spears? Some Vypers? I hope this gave you some idea of what I'm after. A mobile, fluid army that requires some forethought to use. I may be completely wrong though. So what's your thoughts guys, is an army themed like that a valid one?
I switch out the Scorpions they lose there jobs to Warlocks(wound 2+ regardless of Toughness) and Harlies(40 or so Kiss attacks with Furious Charge and Hit and Run make great combo). Plus theres good chance they ended up on the wrong side of table, standard and useless. I say add in Banshees instead since you will have something that can deal with MEQ and FNP, plus they always go first since its pain to get I10. also there cheaper(192 full squad with all the wargear taken). Warp Spiders I've always felt little iffy with them plus you should always have one wave seprent meant to be front line assault carrier, so I suggest dropping them. This is what I would take
Autarch: Warp Jump, Mandiblaster,Power Weapon, Fusion gun - 100
Farseer: RoW, RaW, Fortune - 110
Warlocks(7): Embolden, Enhance, sping spears(2) - 201
Wave Serpent: TL-Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones - 110
Howling Banshees( 10 ): Exarch, Mirrorswords, Counter-Attack, War Shout - 192
Wave Serpent: TL-Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones - 125
Dire Avengers (7)x2: Exarch, Dual, Bladestorm - 116 x 2 =232
Wave Serpent: TL-EML. Spirit Stones - 130
War Walkers(2): Scatter Lasers x 2 - 120
Warp Spiders(6): Exarch, dual Deathspinners, Powerblades, Withdraw: 174p
This is a little bit better all-comers hybird list. Nids give you some problems and Land Rider spam army will also. Basically the tactic here is fortune up on the seer & friends, flat move to the front of the enemy, with Banshees & Warp Spiders coming up in behind them (deep stiking the spiders is good idea if 2 squads are on foot). The non-DA will be put on reaserve and don't give them the Autarch bonus till end game so they can cap and objective late. War Walkers and EML Wave Serpent(DA squad should remain inside it at all times) sit in the back taking pot shots at any squad they can. When it comes to end game Wave Serpents go off and contest all objects your opponent, ehile the EML Serpent with DA squad still in squad goes for one they can hold.
Also on theme stuff remember that the general rule is if you can think it up it exists somewhere in the 40k universe
Last edited by negZero; August 23rd, 2010 at 02:41.
When I first started collecting basically I got a basic box set of everything, expensive yes but it allowed me to get a feel for what works for me. Once I found the particular units that I liked I bought more of them.
Warwalkers at first did not appeal because at the time I only had one but in squads of three...oh yes...I love my warwalkers and in noncompetitive games I always have a squad and their armed with what ever I think I'll need.
Wraithlords are fun, especially in small points games. They aren't much use in larger point games but if you just want to have a laugh take one. If your friends underestimate this model the first time they never will again! LOL
Anyway I can go on and on about my own personal experiences with models but that would be a waste of time. What you will definately need whether your playing competitively or not is some Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Fire Prisms and numerous waveserpents for transports. Never leave your troops on foot unless absolutely nessessary. If you want to talk more about my experiences building up my army then mail me and I'll happily help.