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I'm painting Baharoth at the moment which is the last of the Phoenix Lords for me to complete the Apoc formation; Phoenix Court of Khaine. Whilst I know the formation is probably not the best use of the lords, I think it does win good cool points.
In regular 40K games I have used a number of the PLs with varying success. Asurman always rocks at what he does Karandras will dismember pretty much anything in range and Jain Zar is the ultimate MEQ killing machine.
I haven't really used the other 3 and whilst I can see that Baharoth looks reasonable, I really don't see much use for Fuegan and Maugan Ra.
IMHO the other lords work best when joined up with a squad of their aspect. But both Fuegan and Maugan Ra seem to add a strong CC element to two squads that really don't want to be getting into CC (i.e Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers).
As much as I feel that the HQ slot is better used for a cheaper more effective unit (Avatar/Farseer), I still often end up wanting to take a lord along for the fluffiness and the fact the I love the models.
So what are your thoughts on the Phoenix Lords? Anyone got any good stories on how they've used them to great effect or heroic failure?
I have used Fuegan a fair bit and he is quite a surprise packet. Strength 5 in combat and a 2+ save with FNP made him a monster against most units. In one game he destroyed 2 Dreadies, 2 drop pods and a sternguard squad and their rhino. Not bad IMHO.
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I have used the Phoenix court of Khaine in a couple of apoc games. In one game these guys managed to survive not one but two D-Strength weapons and numerous krak missles from a Long FAngs squad (Gotta love the eternal rule and the 2+ save) and various other barrages of fire but managed to destroy a Rhino and the squad inside before assaulting Bjorn (vunerable Dreadnought with 5+ invunerable save) and wiping him out with ease in CC despite him surviving the shooting phase unharmed. On my oppents last turn (he was determined to kill off the Phoenix lords!) he assaulted me with his best CC unit, A Wolf Guard Pack in Termy armour, with wolf claws and storm shields with the IC Ragnar Blackmane attached. Despite the IC and 10 man squad with Invunerable saves my Court of Khaine wiped them out without letting his squad launch a single attack! (Admittedly my friend had a little bad luck with his saves but even still the court of Khaine can dish out an amazing number of attacks in CC. 37 Basic attacks and 44 on the charge!
Im not sure if the Court of Khaine earned their points back that game or not but considering how much fire power they drew to themselves they saved a lot my other squads from having to take it and allowing them to wipe out several of his other units. It was a massive 10,000 pt Apoc game and everyone agreed at the end of the game that my Court of Khaine were the stars of the show and although a couple of them were on their last wounds from the severe amount of fire power that was thrown at them all of the survived the battle!
@Macleod - that's awesome, I know that statistically they are monsters in CC, particularly as they are all ICs which mean that even a big squad of Ork boys will need to divide attacks amongst them rather than just spamming attacks against a unit. Also they can it choose to join up as a single unit of ICs to distribute incoming shooting - or seperate to make themselves individuls which potentially give cover to each other.
Join them up as a unit and put in Eldrad to fortune the unit and the avatar and you have some scary survivability there. Costs more than a Reaver titan though, but who's counting :-)
In 2000 point game against World Bearers/Eaters hybrid list, Maugan Ra was able to kill 4 chaos bikes, 5 terminators, 20 lesser demons, and squad of obliterators by himself. He took only a single wound. I bet you can see a use for Ra now
I wouldnt put Eldrad into the formation with them when a normal farseer with fortune and doom will do the job just as well. True they are a fearsome unit but in Apoc there are weapons that will outright destroy this unit in one blast. Putting so much in one place can be risk in apoc. They may not be able to be instantly killed but weapons that suck anything under the blast marker like a vortex grenade for instance, you dont even get invunerable saves against these weapons the model is just removed out right.
I know, I run my fair share of D weapons - between 2 titans and a cobra I can kick out nine D templates which pretty much say goodnight to whatever is in range. With my big guns on the table as well it certainly give the opposition some interesting target priority decisions :-)
What's somewhat funny is the ones you DON'T like are the guys that provide the most utility.
Maugan Ra is one of the cheapest and is generally run with Harlequins or a Seer council, never with Dark Reapers as the weapons do very different things. With Quins, he can advance with the Deathjester, looking cool and shooting their Shriekers and potentially causing pinning while benefiting from ShadowSeer. With Council, he provides much needed power weapon attacks at solid Initiative and Str 6. His Maugeteer is Rending as well, so it could potentially penetrate any AV.
Fuegan comes second for many, but his utility is the greatest. Don't discount leading a squad of Firedragons. With a squad of the full 10, he gives them a chance to survive the next round by making them fearless and utilizing his 2+ save and FNP to soak up some wounds. He can split from the squad in the right circumstance, affording you a chance to destroy 2 vehicles in one turn as well. Fuegan has a good number of save negating attacks at 5 Str and good I, so he can take out a squad of marines on his own that doesn't include a powerweapon or fist, and that makes up for his points right there. Other option is with a Council, providing more utility than Maugan Ra or Jain Zair with his tank busting ability at range (9" melta) as well as CC (2D6 penetration in melee) and best wound soaking with rerollable 2+ and FNP on top of that but not as much pure troop killing power.
Jain Zair is nothing but a killing machine. She is run with CC squads like Scorpions (compensate for lack of powerweapons), Banshees or Council. She swings at Str 6 and I 10, so she will kill a lot. For her killing ability, the 190 points makes her almost worth it. She could kill up to 8 marines in a single turn (Str 5, AP2, Assault 3 triskele at BS7?!), and use her crazy high I to run them down when they flee!
Karandas is capable of delivering the most punishment, but he sadly must use I 1 to do so. Still, 6 power weapon attacks at Str 8 and WS7 is going to just about wipe out whatever his accompanying unit doesn't kill.
Asuremen you seem to know about. He's really good except for being way too expensive for what he does. He might undergo some serious changes when a new codex comes out as the commander's possessing utility and force modifiers rather than pure killing power is the norm. Maybe he will make all Guardians guns 18" and BS4 or something?
Baharroth is probably the most useless. He doesn't lend much of use to his squad other than allow the exarch to take fewer powers and some Str 4 powerweapon attacks at I7 (they shouldn't be in CC anyway in most cases). The squad can do whatever should be done by them without Baharroth, and with him they cost way too much. He also can't run alone because his save isn't Invunerable, so a few heavy weapons and he's a 200+ point waste.
@Faedryth: Jain Zar can't join a group of Scorpions, since they are different aspect warriors and phoenix lord can join there there aspect warriors or non-aspect units.
i've had great luck with fuegan and khandras... though they r the only ones ive ever tried out
fuegan: in an apoc game at my friends 14,000 points a side 3000 of which where mine. We were outnumbered on tanks for my friend brought his 5000 points worth of pure tanks so i fortune up two wave serpents with fire dragons and him took down more than their points value... wayyy more haha.
Khandras: well he just walked up to a tau player with a squad of scorpians and racked up 6 killpoints..... enough said